Swine Flu and H1N1 Vaccinations

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Normal Swine Flu and H1N1 Vaccinations

Post by ladyjustice37 on Fri May 29, 2009 12:35 pm

:) K, could not resist posting this here........ehehhehe

All jokes aside, this is growing in numbers.

States* Confirmed and Probable Cases Deaths
Alabama 71 cases 0 deaths
Arkansas 6 cases 0 deaths
Arizona 540 cases 3 deaths
California 553 cases 0 deaths
Colorado 68 cases 0 deaths
Connecticut 149 cases 0 deaths
Delaware 115 cases 0 deaths
Florida 165 cases 0 deaths
Georgia 28 cases 0 deaths
Hawaii 71 cases 0 deaths
Idaho 12 cases 0 deaths
Illinois 1002 cases 2 deaths
Indiana 138 cases 0 deaths
Iowa 71 cases 0 deaths
Kansas 34 cases 0 deaths
Kentucky** 50 cases 0 deaths
Louisiana 114 cases 0 deaths
Maine 11 cases 0 deaths
Maryland 48 cases 0 deaths
Massachusetts 416 cases 0 deaths
Michigan 229 cases 0 deaths
Minnesota 47 cases 0 deaths
Mississippi 13 cases 0 deaths
Missouri 29 cases 1 death
Montana 14 cases 0 deaths
Nebraska 43 cases 0 deaths
Nevada 84 cases 0 deaths
New Hampshire 35 cases 0 deaths
New Jersey 72 cases 0 deaths
New Mexico 97 cases 0 deaths
New York 553 cases 4 deaths
North Carolina 14 cases 0 deaths
North Dakota 6 cases 0 deaths
Ohio 18 cases 0 deaths
Oklahoma 67 cases 0 deaths
Oregon 132 cases 0 deaths
Pennsylvania 123 cases 0 deaths
Rhode Island 13 cases 0 deaths
South Carolina 41 cases 0 deaths
South Dakota 6 cases 0 deaths
Tennessee 100 cases 0 deaths
Texas 1403 cases 3 deaths
Utah 122 cases 1 death
Vermont 3 cases 0 deaths
Virginia 29 cases 0 deaths
Washington 575 cases 1 death
Washington, D.C. 14 cases 0 deaths
Wisconsin 1430 cases 0 deaths
Wyoming 1 case 0 deaths
TOTAL*(49) 8,975 cases 15 deaths

http://www.cdc.gov/h1n1flu/update.htm
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Post by Wrapitup on Fri May 29, 2009 12:53 pm

Good Lord, this is horrible. I think many have forgotten about this horrible epidemic. It is like anything else. A month or so ago, everyone was freaking and wearing masks. It was all over the news. But now, you just get mostly soundbytes about it.

Please keep this forum updated and thanks so much for all your hard work!!!!!!!! :heart:
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Normal Re: Swine Flu and H1N1 Vaccinations

Post by Guest on Fri May 29, 2009 1:16 pm

My little rinky-dink town here in Ohio has an article in today's newspaper confirming our first case of Swine flu. The man is an instructor at a local college and attended graduation ceremonies last weekend - was in contact with a LARGE crowd of people. We have another person in the community who has initially tested positive but is awaiting confirmation from our State Dept. of Health. In the confirmed case, the man has been quarantined and all family members have been given anti-viral medications.

It just makes me wonder how many people were in contact with him through the college, the ceremonies, the classrooms, etc. How many of those people have been out in the community this week? EEEEEKKKK!!! Hand me my moon suit and my bottle of bleach. I don't want to leave my apartment without them. affraid
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Post by ladyjustice37 on Fri May 29, 2009 1:27 pm

Just brought to my attention, outside of this forum,
CDC numbers do not add up.
It shows 49 states however Alaska and West Virginia are not listed. What gives???????
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Post by Guest on Fri May 29, 2009 2:26 pm

well... you MAY be able to add West Virginia to your list.. i am a "talk radio addict" listen to it every morn on the way to school....... (bob and sherri) ... and they announced this am that there is a VERY probable case in a 15 yr old boy here in MY COUNTY!!!!!

great.. i am in the hospitals 3 days a week for clinicals....

let us pray that i DO NOT get the damn pig flu... (sorry warp.. i said a wordy dird)
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Post by Guest on Fri May 29, 2009 2:34 pm

americanjustice37 wrote:Just brought to my attention, outside of this forum,
CDC numbers do not add up.
It shows 49 states however Alaska and West Virginia are not listed. What gives???????

I had noticed that when I was keeping track of it. I read somewhere and dont ask for the link because I could not begin to tell you but from what I read it is that each state confirms its own the number that the CDC releases are the ones that are confirmed through the CDC if that makes since. However I beleive I read a few weeks ago that they were going to stop testing for the "swine" flu and just start testing for influenza, because it is not "flu" season and it would be more cost effcient to just test for the flu instead of the costly tests for Swine Flu, make since?
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Post by Guest on Fri May 29, 2009 2:35 pm

LMAO, you called WRAP,,,, WARP.... to funny :lol!:
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Post by ladyjustice37 on Fri May 29, 2009 3:10 pm

Makes perfect sense. I just have my worries. I know the govt does not tell us everything we should know and........

butterfly wrote:
americanjustice37 wrote:Just brought to my attention, outside of this forum,
CDC numbers do not add up.
It shows 49 states however Alaska and West Virginia are not listed. What gives???????

I had noticed that when I was keeping track of it. I read somewhere and dont ask for the link because I could not begin to tell you but from what I read it is that each state confirms its own the number that the CDC releases are the ones that are confirmed through the CDC if that makes since. However I beleive I read a few weeks ago that they were going to stop testing for the "swine" flu and just start testing for influenza, because it is not "flu" season and it would be more cost effcient to just test for the flu instead of the costly tests for Swine Flu, make since?
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Post by Guest on Sun May 31, 2009 8:58 pm

Hello Everyone ---- from CSO

My son got the Swine Flu....it really was not to bad. Not a strong strand.
Of course, during such time I was not on CSO just taking care of my son...after a few days BOOM there was no CSO.
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Normal Re: Swine Flu and H1N1 Vaccinations

Post by ladyjustice37 on Sun May 31, 2009 9:50 pm

DFS,
I read many of your words. I am sorry to hear of you son, glad to hear it was not bad, also glad to have you here with all of us. Best wishes and thoughts sent your way
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Normal Re: Swine Flu and H1N1 Vaccinations

Post by Guest on Sun May 31, 2009 9:56 pm

Washington DC is listed as a "state" and it is not really. If we count DC, we would have 51 "states" minus 2 (AL and WV) so there are 49.
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Post by ladyjustice37 on Sun May 31, 2009 10:12 pm

georgiamom wrote:Washington DC is listed as a "state" and it is not really. If we count DC, we would have 51 "states" minus 2 (AL and WV) so there are 49.
\\\\


i knew this as a child and i forgot... thank you for educating me once again. i will try not to forget this time. YOU ARE SO RIGHT....

have a great eve.... I would say 'my cyber friend' but NG seems to have worn the word out. you are welcome to accept if you choose.\\

:)
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Post by Wrapitup on Mon Jun 01, 2009 12:04 am

randilynn wrote:well... you MAY be able to add West Virginia to your list.. i am a "talk radio addict" listen to it every morn on the way to school....... (bob and sherri) ... and they announced this am that there is a VERY probable case in a 15 yr old boy here in MY COUNTY!!!!!

great.. i am in the hospitals 3 days a week for clinicals....

let us pray that i DO NOT get the damn pig flu... (sorry warp.. i said a wordy dird)
"Damn" is not a dirty word!!!! The "swine flu" are two dirty words!! :pig:


Last edited by Wrapitup on Mon Jun 01, 2009 12:09 am; edited 2 times in total
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Post by Wrapitup on Mon Jun 01, 2009 12:06 am

DFS PFD wrote:Hello Everyone ---- from CSO

My son got the Swine Flu....it really was not to bad. Not a strong strand.
Of course, during such time I was not on CSO just taking care of my son...after a few days BOOM there was no CSO.
DFS PFD, so good to see you here! And happy to hear your son't bout was slight! :heart:
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Post by Wrapitup on Mon Jun 01, 2009 12:09 am

butterfly wrote:LMAO, you called WRAP,,,, WARP.... to funny :lol!:
I AM warped after today!!! :cyclops: That is Randi's pet name for me!! :cat:
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Normal Re: Swine Flu and H1N1 Vaccinations

Post by Guest on Mon Jun 01, 2009 4:40 am

Thanks for the kind words --- the only thing that I would recommend if you get the swine flu --- is to NOT get the inhaler version of the medication. My son hated the tingle and burning sensation on his already sore throat, then after the 2nd treatment of the inhaler he got a non-stop bloody nose from it.
Switched over to the liquid Tamiflu for my son the next day, and all went well. Fever broke in 3 days, out of school for a required 7 days -- but honestly he had no symptons after 5 full days.

Did anyone ever find out what happened to the CSO web-site?
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Post by Guest on Mon Jun 01, 2009 1:28 pm

paige... if i may ask? we are neighbors... where in OH are you located.. i PROMISE i will not hold it against you ( TOO MUCH ) if you are a BUCKS fan!!

and yes.. i have ALWAYS called wrap warp.. wow.. that is hard to type.. and warp.. i hope it does NOT offend you dear, cause i am pretty sure that i couldnt stop even if i wanted too.. (which i DONT)...
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Post by Guest on Mon Jun 01, 2009 1:29 pm

DFS PFD wrote:Thanks for the kind words --- the only thing that I would recommend if you get the swine flu --- is to NOT get the inhaler version of the medication. My son hated the tingle and burning sensation on his already sore throat, then after the 2nd treatment of the inhaler he got a non-stop bloody nose from it.
Switched over to the liquid Tamiflu for my son the next day, and all went well. Fever broke in 3 days, out of school for a required 7 days -- but honestly he had no symptons after 5 full days.

Did anyone ever find out what happened to the CSO web-site?

omg... DFS.. i am sorry to hear of your son's illness... hope he is doing great!! sounds like he is... and .. did anyone else in your family that was in contact with him get it?
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Post by Guest on Mon Jun 01, 2009 3:06 pm

Hi Randilynn --- My son will officially be out of quarantine Tuesday - 7 days no contact. I have been with him every day, I was suppose to wear a mask around the house and I did not only because he is my son -- and I did not want to make him feel badly.
I just washed my hand about 1000 times, and he had his own bathroom, towels, soap etc. We gave him paper cups and steriled all the dishes at night. Neither me nor my husband got sick. They gave us medication upfront -- just in case, but we never had to use it.
Honestly, the Flu my son had last year was 5 times worst than the swine. The liquid medication they gave him really worked on the swine flu.
Being locked in the house for the week.....really sucked!!! lol
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Post by ladyjustice37 on Mon Jun 01, 2009 3:08 pm

10,053

States* Confirmed and Probable Cases Deaths
Alabama 84 cases 0 deaths
Alaska 1 case 0 deaths
Arkansas 7cases 0 deaths
Arizona 547 cases 4 deaths
California 804 cases 0 deaths
Colorado 61 cases 0 deaths
Connecticut 196 cases 0 deaths
Delaware 121 cases 0 deaths
Florida 166 cases 0 deaths
Georgia 29 cases 0 deaths
Hawaii 73 cases 0 deaths
Idaho 13 cases 0 deaths
Illinois 1103 cases 3 deaths
Indiana 146 cases 0 deaths
Iowa 71 cases 0 deaths
Kansas 79 cases 0 deaths
Kentucky** 77 cases 0 deaths
Louisiana 122 cases 0 deaths
Maine 11 cases 0 deaths
Maryland 48 cases 0 deaths
Massachusetts 470 cases 0 deaths
Michigan 234 cases 0 deaths
Minnesota 60 0 deaths
Mississippi 16 cases 0 deaths
Missouri 36 cases 1 death
Montana 14 cases 0 deaths
Nebraska 43 cases 0 deaths
Nevada 102 cases 0 deaths
New Hampshire 40 cases 0 deaths
New Jersey 74 cases 0 deaths
New Mexico 108 cases 0 deaths
New York 605 cases 4 deaths
North Carolina 14 cases 0 deaths
North Dakota 6 cases 0 deaths
Ohio 23 cases 0 deaths
Oklahoma 82 cases 0 deaths
Oregon 148 cases 0 deaths
Pennsylvania 123 cases 0 deaths
Rhode Island 14 cases 0 deaths
South Carolina 46 cases 0 deaths
South Dakota 7 cases 0 deaths
Tennessee 104 cases 0 deaths
Texas 1403 cases 3 deaths
Utah 247 cases 1 death
Vermont 3 cases 0 deaths
Virginia 31 cases 0 deaths
Washington 575 cases 1 death
Washington, D.C. 20 cases 0 deaths
West Virginia 3 cases 0 deaths
Wisconsin 1641 cases 0 deaths
Wyoming 2 cases 0 deaths
TOTAL*(51) 10,053 cases 17 deaths

P.S. I thought I posted this but cannot find it. Sorry if it hit twice.
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Post by Guest on Mon Jun 01, 2009 3:23 pm

Well I guess -- my son made Massachusetts 471 !!! Lol
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Post by ladyjustice37 on Wed Jun 03, 2009 11:35 am

Alabama 94 cases 0 deaths
Alaska 1 case 0 deaths
Arkansas 9cases 0 deaths
Arizona 547 cases 4 deaths
California 804 cases 0 deaths
Colorado 68 cases 0 deaths
Connecticut 196 cases 0 deaths
Delaware 135 cases 0 deaths
Florida 194 cases 0 deaths
Georgia 32 cases 0 deaths
Hawaii 94 cases 0 deaths
Idaho 16 cases 0 deaths
Illinois 1151 cases 3 deaths
Indiana 146 cases 0 deaths
Iowa 92 cases 0 deaths
Kansas 87 cases 0 deaths
Kentucky 90 cases 0 deaths
Louisiana 122 cases 0 deaths
Maine 12 cases 0 deaths
Maryland 63 cases 0 deaths
Massachusetts 566 cases 0 deaths
Michigan 287 cases 0 deaths
Minnesota 66 0 deaths
Mississippi 34 cases 0 deaths
Missouri 41 cases 1 death
Montana 15 cases 0 deaths
Nebraska 43 cases 0 deaths
Nevada 113 cases 0 deaths
New Hampshire 50 cases 0 deaths
New Jersey 74 cases 0 deaths
New Mexico 108 cases 0 deaths
New York 646 cases 4 deaths
North Carolina 21 cases 0 deaths
North Dakota 18 cases 0 deaths
Ohio 29 cases 0 deaths
Oklahoma 87 cases 0 deaths
Oregon 159 cases 0 deaths
Pennsylvania 226 cases 0 deaths
Rhode Island 16 cases 0 deaths
South Carolina 49 cases 0 deaths
South Dakota 9 cases 0 deaths
Tennessee 103 cases 0 deaths
Texas 1403 cases 3 deaths
Utah 369 cases 1 death
Vermont 7 cases 0 deaths
Virginia 36 cases 0 deaths
Washington 574 cases 1 death
Washington, D.C. 20 cases 0 deaths
West Virginia 3 cases 0 deaths
Wisconsin 1905 cases 0 deaths
Wyoming 18 cases 0 deaths
Territories
Puerto Rico 6 cases 0 deaths
TOTAL*(52) 11,054 cases 17 deaths

based on information from the link below:
http://www.cdc.gov/h1n1flu/update.htm
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Post by Guest on Wed Jun 03, 2009 7:47 pm

DFS..

good to hear that both he, and your family are well... i have heard that from other people that it is NOT nearly as bad (for them) as the good ole influenza that usually goes around... the 1st confirmed case here in my county, was a 15 year old boy that was successfully treated at home..
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Post by Juanita on Wed Jun 03, 2009 7:55 pm

its not bad now but its going to get worse in the fall, so keep those handwashing habits going!

for those of you who dont know, i work in a virology lab. we got H1N1 a couple of weeks ago and we got some research is underway.

when i was in san diego last month i was able to hear a series of talks from the "experts" and take home message is, this isnt like 1918, we are more prepared post-SARS and yes, the second wave will be worse and is predicted to come in the fall.
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Post by ladyjustice37 on Wed Jun 03, 2009 9:53 pm

Juanita,
I would greatly appreciate, and on behalf of all members here, request that you keep us updated on any new situations.

Thank you for the info.

Take great care at all times....

Juanita wrote:its not bad now but its going to get worse in the fall, so keep those handwashing habits going!

for those of you who dont know, i work in a virology lab. we got H1N1 a couple of weeks ago and we got some research is underway.

when i was in san diego last month i was able to hear a series of talks from the "experts" and take home message is, this isnt like 1918, we are more prepared post-SARS and yes, the second wave will be worse and is predicted to come in the fall.
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Post by Juanita on Wed Jun 03, 2009 9:54 pm

yes i definitely plan to :) i take care of my peeps love that avatar!
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Post by Guest on Wed Jun 03, 2009 10:12 pm

ladyjustice,
I noticed in your posts that the total numbers changed +1000 on new cases from 6/1 to 6/3. Am I reading that right?
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Post by ladyjustice37 on Wed Jun 03, 2009 10:21 pm

my numbers are only a direct paste/link from the CDC (center of disease control).
(p.s. if I understand what you are saying correctly, yes is the answer)

georgiamom wrote:ladyjustice,
I noticed in your posts that the total numbers changed +1000 on new cases from 6/1 to 6/3. Am I reading that right?
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Post by ladyjustice37 on Fri Jun 05, 2009 12:43 pm

On Wed, June 3, you can see above there were 11,054 cases
Today, Fri, June 5, you can see the link below there are 13,217 cases.
Increase in two days of 2,163.

http://www.cdc.gov/h1n1flu/update.htm

I am going to stop posting the entire list, unless I hear otherwise from anyone. It seems to take up so much space and I figured if you wanted the specific number you may click the link.

All of you - try to stay safe. The media is not reporting this as they should, but then again, if they did, we would have a nationwide panic.
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Post by Juanita on Fri Jun 05, 2009 12:47 pm

i just want you to keep this in perspective though, the death rate by this flu is about the same or less as regular flu.

the numbers increase sound large, but this is typical for a contageous pathogen.

i would rather it go away and it still might, but right now my panic is MUCH LESS than it was that first week.
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Post by ladyjustice37 on Fri Jun 05, 2009 12:52 pm

J,
Gotcha, I trust your judgement on this. I am no where close to the medical field. I tell you what. I shoot over the stats on this as things occur and if you think other thoughts should be added feel free to post. I think I am going to do it once a week or as I think of it. Thanks so much for sharing your knowledge with all of us.
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Post by ladyjustice37 on Tue Jun 09, 2009 10:11 am

as of June 5, (CDC has not upated stats) we had 13,217 cases in the US.
http://www.cdc.gov/h1n1flu/update.htm


as of June 8, (WHO) states there are 13,217 plus a possible 2,163 more which would in total be 15,380 once confirmed.
http://www.who.int/csr/don/2009_06_08/en/index.html
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Post by Juanita on Tue Jun 09, 2009 11:08 am

im very glad you are going to the source. CDC and WHO.

we still dont know why mexico had a higher death rate, but im still not convinced that the mexico strain is the same as the california. as soon as i find out more, i will let you all know.

people in my lab are looking into this, some exciting research is being planned right now. not sure how much of it i can discuss here, but i'll try to give you the main points.
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Post by Guest on Wed Jun 10, 2009 1:21 am

Thank you Lady for keeping up updated. Juanita, I love it when you get all "scientific" on us. :cheers:
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Post by Guest on Wed Jun 10, 2009 10:42 am

We just had our first confirmed case in my county this week. It doesn't seem to be doing as much harm as first expected, but it's still kinda scarey affraid
Hope it's on its way outa here :bounce:
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Post by Juanita on Wed Jun 10, 2009 11:37 am

ok im gonna get all scientific on you now. loll

the WHO is ready to increase the pandemic level to 6, which is, we are under a worldwide pandemic.

"pandemic" does not mean high death RATE. it just means that this disease is spreading rapidly world wide, and to be on the alert. yes many people will get sick, but the RATE is similar to seasonal flu, for now anyway
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Post by ladyjustice37 on Thu Jun 11, 2009 10:29 am

(CNN) -- The World Health Organization raised the swine flu alert Thursday to its highest level, saying H1N1 has spread to enough countries to be considered a global pandemic.

http://www.cnn.com/2009/HEALTH/06/11/swine.flu.who/index.html

It is not posted on WHO yet that I can see.
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Post by ladyjustice37 on Thu Jun 11, 2009 10:31 am

GENEVA (Reuters) - The World Health Organization declared the first flu pandemic of the 21st century on Thursday, Sweden's health ministry said.

http://www.reuters.com/article/topNews/idUSTRE55A1U720090611
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Post by Wrapitup on Thu Jun 11, 2009 12:55 pm

WHO: Swine flu pandemic has begun, 1st in 41 years

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/un_un_swine_flu

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Post by Guest on Thu Jun 11, 2009 3:01 pm

actually, it is up to 12 deaths in new york, 9 in the city. i have had flu-like symptoms for 2 weeks and about 1 in 5 in nyc have experienced this. cough, sore throat, runny nose, stuffiness, headache, etc..it lingers about 2-3 weeks. the testing is at hospitals only and in the month of may, there were more cases reported in the state of ny, than any other time in history. anyway, not saying i/we have it, just saying the flu (mild mostly) is more prevalent here than the severe cases/deaths, thank GOD. it is worse for those with other maladies; diabetes, heart/respiratory problems, age, etc...just an fyi.
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Post by Wrapitup on Thu Jun 11, 2009 3:15 pm

wrapsister wrote:actually, it is up to 12 deaths in new york, 9 in the city. i have had flu-like symptoms for 2 weeks and about 1 in 5 in nyc have experienced this. cough, sore throat, runny nose, stuffiness, headache, etc..it lingers about 2-3 weeks. the testing is at hospitals only and in the month of may, there were more cases reported in the state of ny, than any other time in history. anyway, not saying i/we have it, just saying the flu (mild mostly) is more prevalent here than the severe cases/deaths, thank GOD. it is worse for those with other maladies; diabetes, heart/respiratory problems, age, etc...just an fyi.
Sorry you're not up to snuff but thanks for the update!

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Post by ladyjustice37 on Thu Jun 11, 2009 10:18 pm

Updates,

pandemic, I think I hate the word, but... P.S. WHO LINK, VIP.

'The world is now at the start of the 2009 influenza pandemic.'

http://www.who.int/mediacentre/news/statements/2009/h1n1_pandemic_phase6_20090611/en/index.html
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Normal Re: Swine Flu and H1N1 Vaccinations

Post by TerryRose on Thu Jun 11, 2009 10:23 pm

We are at level 6, huh? Wow! It will be scarry when the fall/winter flu season starts! Thanks, ladyjustice, for the link.
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Normal Re: Swine Flu and H1N1 Vaccinations

Post by Guest on Thu Jun 11, 2009 10:37 pm

TerryRose wrote:We are at level 6, huh? Wow! It will be scarry when the fall/winter flu season starts! Thanks, ladyjustice, for the link.

That is what all the Officials are afraid of as well....BUT we have the BEST source of info, right here on THIS site...Do we not, my dear scientist friend JUANITA!!!!

For someone who hated science in school, I mean REALLY hated it, I LOVE your scientfic information.
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Normal Re: Swine Flu and H1N1 Vaccinations

Post by Guest on Thu Jun 11, 2009 11:15 pm

Juanita, girl ya know I love you bunches, but I have issues with science as well as the government, and for very good reasons, I like the way you and I can discuss things both having diffrent views and still be cool with each other.

I have a question for you not sure if you can answer this or not, because I know you stated upthread that you were not sure how much of this you are suppose to discuss. My first question to you is why? what is the reason they are telling you guys not to discuss this? that is my problem with the government, they decide what we should and should not know, why cant they just tell us the truth and let us decide how we should take care of our selves.
Second question I have is can you honestly tell me that this H1N1 happened naturally, and if so how? I have read everything there is to read about this, and things like this just normally do not happen in nature. I am not tring to be a conspiracy theroist but its true, 3 diffrent breeds of influensa from three diffrent country just so happen to meet up at the exact right time, I saw the video that was released in the media about how a bird infected with Avian flu either 1, flew over to Mexico pooped in a pig pen where a pig had the swine flu and he somehow caught it, or the pig ate something infected with Avian flu, and then the pig who is sick with swine flu riuns into a farmer worker who happens to be sick with human flu and gives it to the pig and all three join together in this pig who in turns gives it to another person with the new H1N1 virus, which kills a bunch of people in Mexico but isn't as bad here... ??? .....WTH, for me its just hard to imagine, but if you could explain how this happened in Lamen terms it would be appreciated at least by me... It just sounds to me more like away to solve a problem, some scientist was messing around with these three flus mixed them together and it was released for whatever purpose, Like maybe to get people focused on something other than the drug cartel in mexico...

Another question I have and I promise this is my last question... I have researched the extensively the flu of 1918, as well as the 1976 "swine flu pandemic" and I say that with much caution, I really do the flu scare in 1976 at Fort Dix was one of the biggest disasters in our governments history. They rushed a vaccine through and scared the shit out of people and people got vaccinated and the vaccine wound up injuring so many. What reassurance do we have that will not happen now? but then whta choice do we have if we dont take the vaccine, look at what happened in 1918... This is what makes me angry, we can not make a educated judgement because we dont know all the facts, but then if we do nothing we could all die like in 1918 or we could trust the government who caused so many long term conditions, as well as deaths in 76 when people trusted the government... So what do we do?

Sorry for the long post, but I am just glad I have someone to address these questions to...please do not think I am attacking you Juanita, because I am not I just want HONEST answers and its not like I can call Obama.
PS. I am not a conspiracy theorist!
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Normal Re: Swine Flu and H1N1 Vaccinations

Post by Guest on Thu Jun 11, 2009 11:36 pm

Butterfly, Juanita is the best! She will give you the straight up answers (if allowed). I get glued to her scientific posts, I really do.
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Normal Re: Swine Flu and H1N1 Vaccinations

Post by Juanita on Fri Jun 12, 2009 7:22 am

ok butterfly, i just found your post. i'll try to answer as completely as possible. no i dont think you are attacking me, this is a debate, and debates need to happen. remember, i'm a taxpayer too, i can get sick too, i go out to the malls too, i fly in airplanes too ;). i ask the same questions and have the same concerns as all you guys. butterfly, your text is in BLUE and mine is in black.


I have a question for you not sure if you can answer this or not, because I know you stated upthread that you were not sure how much of this you are suppose to discuss. My first question to you is why? what is the reason they are telling you guys not to discuss this? that is my problem with the government, they decide what we should and should not know, why cant they just tell us the truth and let us decide how we should take care of our selves.

when i say i dont know how much i can discuss, its not that im trying to hide something. there is no "classified" in my work. Its because I dont want to MISINFORM. I'm not a "spokesperson" for anyone, which is just a way to keep people from being sued. I worry cause i have my family in an email list and they all want to know. so i email them as soon as news comes to me at work, and well my brother emailed to his people at the state, and they fwd it, (and my sister works for the city) and i was like oh shit, i hope i dont get in trouble, especially after we were instructed to send all media to our PR person. Also, when i say, i dont know how much i can discuss, its simply because i dont want to speculate without hard facts. and finally, and this is true for ALL science, even university science, there is a certain amount of etiquette that you dont discuss unpublished data with others for several reasons 1) you dont want to give the competition unfair advantage and 2) you dont want to mislead the science, which will waste taxpayers money. in my opinion, i think the WHO and the CDC have been incredibly open to the public, there isnt much you can hide when the facts are actually published in the new england journal of medicine. you see, there is a serious drive for scientists to put it out to the public, because there is serious competition in our field, papers = jobs. ask me for links and i'll get them for you. So i cant tell you the exact experiment that my colleague is doing down the hall because, well it wont mean anything to you, but a scientist reading this will say, OH LETS DO THAT, and boom, my colleague loses.


Second question I have is can you honestly tell me that this H1N1 happened naturally, and if so how? I have read everything there is to read about this, and things like this just normally do not happen in nature. I am not tring to be a conspiracy theroist but its true, 3 diffrent breeds of influensa from three diffrent country just so happen to meet up at the exact right time, I saw the video that was released in the media about how a bird infected with Avian flu either 1, flew over to Mexico pooped in a pig pen where a pig had the swine flu and he somehow caught it, or the pig ate something infected with Avian flu, and then the pig who is sick with swine flu riuns into a farmer worker who happens to be sick with human flu and gives it to the pig and all three join together in this pig who in turns gives it to another person with the new H1N1 virus, which kills a bunch of people in Mexico but isn't as bad here... ??? .....WTH, for me its just hard to imagine, but if you could explain how this happened in Lamen terms it would be appreciated at least by me... It just sounds to me more like away to solve a problem, some scientist was messing around with these three flus mixed them together and it was released for whatever purpose, Like maybe to get people focused on something other than the drug cartel in mexico...

you need to read scientific articles. go to your university and try to get them if they have subscriptions. go to http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/ and search pubmed. dont rely on associated press, dont read blogs, dont read hearsay. go to the source. peer reviewed articles in the journals science, nature, new england journal of medicine and others.

"things like this do not happen normally in nature" viral mutations happen ALLLLLL THE TIMEEE.. its just that worldwide flu pandemics dont happen all the time. but combining viruses in human livestock happens more often than it should, because, well humans keep livestock in "unnatural" conditions. we have given much more opportunity to happen, and its more likely.

I dont believe that this H1N1 was intentionally made in a lab and there are NO discussions on this possibility going on anywhere in the community. scientists on a typical work day DONT fool around with making stuff without a reason. if the reason is to kill people, well thats a different story entirely, and i seriously doubt that is happening in our country because that costs alot of money. Even if that were the case, this is a really stupid way to do it. H1N1 does not discriminate. besides, anything going on with dangerous viruses is monitored routinely, all protocols must be reported. we work with bird flu in our lab, and only a few people are trained to do this, and protocols and reports are submitted routinely.

Natural? depends on how you define natural. Humans dominating the earth is borderline unnatural because our brains are dominating the typical survival balance of all other species. This virus IS natural (not lab made) but it is human caused. However, this is the result of thousands of years of evolution. yes you can say this is unnatural, if you consider humans and their livestock unnatural, but that doesnt mean its not preventable. if we used our brains to get in trouble, we can use our brains to get out ;)

When i was in San Diego last month i had the rare opportunity to listen to a few talks on experts.(let me know if you want the names, i dont have them here) The acting director for H1N1 at the CDC was there, a doctor from Mexico city was there, a scientist specializing in flu was there etc. This is how they think it went down. Humans gave influenza to pigs. Humans and pigs live in close proximity and pigs live all packed together and can give it to each other. Pigs (and other lifestock) are considered mixing vessels or "vectors" for the flu. The pig does not have its own natural flu. The human flu has been in pigs and is evolving in pigs seperately from the flu that we get every year but the pig flu can still cross back to humans because thats where it came from. Chickens and birds are also domestic livestock, (i think) caught the flu from humans as well. Pigs did not get flu from birds. Flu in birds is also evolving and comes back to humans rarely. These different flus can recombine because they have similar sequences, and now you get hybrid flus once they get back to humans. The truth is, these things mutate until one strain is just right to pass back to humans and thats when we see them. We never see all the trial and error. So its unfair to really say that this is a rare 1 in a trillion chance that the right sequences came together perfectly to kill us, evolution isnt quite doing that. evolution is when a species finds the right situation, sequence, host to survive and do whats best for THEM. Humans might be innocent bystander victims. You have to realize that the virus is replicating in so many generations, (orders of magnitude) and the virus itself is replicating into trillions of "babies" seeing that 1 in a trillion event that is just right to jump to humans and be contagious in humans, is almost inevitable.

as of that san diego meeting, we dont know why it was more dangerous in mexico, but i have my theories. 1) mexicans were getting sick without knowing this was a potential pandemic. i THINK most stayed at home and tried to sleep it off. for them, it was mild and they got better. no panic, no news NO NUMBERS COUNTED. Those with preexisting disease like diabetes and asthma had such a horrible time after being sick for so long at home, they went to the hospital and 30% died. After the news broke out, more people went to the clinic but the tests to genetically confirm were not available right away, and the count was off again. CDC developed their own genetic test and again there was a lag. By the time we had that test working, the seriously ill in mexico had already died and boosted mexicos death rate numbers artificially, and in america, everyone with alergies went into the clinic. The numbers were skewed and then they got better, but by then, mexico had completly shut down and they stopped getting sick as fast as the US. So any way you slice it, mexico had a different experience than the rest of the world due to what they knew and WHEN they knew it. Thats MY theory cause im a scientist. I have no intention of following through with this though, im too busy with other projects, but any chance i get, i tell people i know, so that someone might pick it up. 2) second possiblity, the strain in mexico is different and more lethal than the US strain. They SAY they sequenced both and they came out to be the same, but i have not heard "identical" all it takes is one base change to change a virus's behavior. i have only heard "similar". the san diego talks pointed out that the virus is so different from other strains of flu but it doesnt have a series of similar "variants" and they thought this was strange. i think thats because we havent located the variants yet, i think mexico and san diego are two different variants. sooner or later, these answers will come out, im confident of that. scientists love to solve things, and they love to be in the news, it gives them a better job ;)



Another question I have and I promise this is my last question... I have researched the extensively the flu of 1918, as well as the 1976 "swine flu pandemic" and I say that with much caution, I really do the flu scare in 1976 at Fort Dix was one of the biggest disasters in our governments history. They rushed a vaccine through and scared the shit out of people and people got vaccinated and the vaccine wound up injuring so many. What reassurance do we have that will not happen now? but then whta choice do we have if we dont take the vaccine, look at what happened in 1918... This is what makes me angry, we can not make a educated judgement because we dont know all the facts, but then if we do nothing we could all die like in 1918 or we could trust the government who caused so many long term conditions, as well as deaths in 76 when people trusted the government... So what do we do?



First of all, we definitely learned from 1976 and 1918. I cannot assure you that it wont happen again, because i cannot predict the future. I can say, in my opinion that i have confidence in scientists. Scientists are like doctors, we are in it to save lives. We started out loving life, loving animals, we took biology in school, and to earn a living, we do research to satisfy our goals of saving lives, saving animals, and earning a living. The government and universities have historically been the main employer of scientists. Recently pharmaceutical companies and biotech have been booming, so as far as # of jobs and $$ i dont know where the governemtn ranks. My point is, our mistakes of the last 100 years were not intentional because there is no motivation to kill people. It doesnt make business or financial sense. Same is true today. People pay more money to save lives and so thats what we are in the business of doing. We dont want the past mistakes to repeat themselves so we work very hard to change things. "educated judgements" are usually without all the facts. we have as many facts as possible. its impossible to know that you have all the facts, because by definition, the unknown is the unknown. I BELIEVE that the vaccine of 1976 prevented many more deaths than it caused. It wasnt perfect, it was a sad side effect yes, but we all take risks. This was an urgent matter. 1918 was devastating. In 1976 there were no genome sequences. A person earned a Ph.D. for sequencing ONE gene. Now, for many organisms, all the genes are sequenced and more work is required. WE CAN quickly download several flu virus genomes to our Dell computers in the lab and COMPARE them. I have people in the lab doing this now. We know what makes H1N1 different and similar to all other flu viruses. This wont be as deadly as 1918 as long as it doesnt mutate, but it will mutate.

i cant predict the future, but I can say, we shouldnt panic, but we should stay aware, we (humans) have the advantage in this round. We know much more about flu than 1976, much more than 1918, hour hospitals are much better, everyone's awareness is much better, we have internet, we all have TV, we have clean homes, clean water.


Last edited by Juanita on Fri Jun 12, 2009 7:45 am; edited 4 times in total (Reason for editing : clarify)
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Normal Re: Swine Flu and H1N1 Vaccinations

Post by Guest on Fri Jun 12, 2009 7:50 am

Very well put Juanita. Just when I put my guard down the alert level raises.
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Normal Re: Swine Flu and H1N1 Vaccinations

Post by ladyjustice37 on Fri Jun 12, 2009 8:18 am

Thanks for the info J. we are grateful!


Last edited by ladyjustice37 on Fri Jun 12, 2009 8:19 am; edited 1 time in total (Reason for editing : mispelled word)
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Normal Re: Swine Flu and H1N1 Vaccinations

Post by ladyjustice37 on Fri Jun 12, 2009 11:00 am

TOTAL*(52) 17,855 cases 45 deaths - America/Puerto Rico

http://www.cdc.gov/h1n1flu/update.htm

increase of 4638 cases since last friday. Average out to 662 being infected every day of last week.
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