Patricia Lopez,17, kills preemie with scissors, buries in shallow grave/ Lopez has plead GUILTY & w/be sentenced July 31.

by CritterFan1 Fri Feb 11, 2011 7:18 pm

Saw this on Nancy Grace

Nancy Grace
Breaking -- A 17-year-old teen girl just charged with murder after she allegedly kills her premature baby girl with a pair of scissors before burying the remains in a shallow grave.
Teen charged as adult in death of premature baby
By Scott Smith
Record Staff Writer
February 11, 2011 12:00 AM

STOCKTON - Officials said Thursday that a 17-year-old girl from the rural farming community of Holt used a pair of scissors to murder her premature baby girl before burying it in a shallow grave.

The girl, Patricia Lopez, appeared before a judge in San Joaquin County Superior Court to hear that prosecutors have charged her as an adult with first-degree murder and child abuse resulting in death.

If she is found guilty, the teen, who is a student at Tracy's West High School, faces a state prison term of 26 years to life.

While a prosecutor said the adult charges fit the crime, not everybody is convinced.

"I have a hard time thinking of a 17-year-old girl being put into prison for life for something like this," said John Schick, a law professor at Humphreys College Laurence Drivon School of Law. Schick is not involved in the girl's defense.

Schick said he did not know all facts, and prosecutors revealed few of them upon her arraignment. It's unclear how the scissors were used. But Schick speculated that the girl was likely not thinking clearly and may have feared her parents.

"Maybe she needs protection from the law," he said, suggesting that manslaughter, which carries up to 11 years in prison, would be a more appropriate charge.

Lopez apparently concealed her pregnancy from her parents, the San Joaquin County Sheriff's Office has said.

She likely gave birth Monday and then sought treatment Tuesday evening at a local hospital for complications related to childbirth. Medical workers contacted investigators, who interviewed her.

Detectives later found the buried remains of a child born after 22 to 26 weeks of gestation. The grave was near her family's mobile home, where officials said Lopez gave birth and killed the baby in the bathroom.

In court Thursday, Judge Richard Guiliani read Lopez the charges and asked if she wanted to speak with an attorney. She responded with silence, as if confused.

"If there's somebody here who needs a lawyer, it certainly is you," Guiliani told her, next appointing an attorney to represent her.

San Joaquin County Deputy Public Defender Georgia McElroy talked briefly in private with Lopez and then asked the judge to set bail so the girl might go free pending the conclusion of her case.

As proof that she would return to court, McElroy said Lopez's parents, two sisters and more than a dozen relatives came to court in a show of support.

She asked the relatives to raise their hands for the judge to see.

McElroy also said Lopez was born in San Joaquin County and has strong ties to the community.

The judge, nevertheless, declined to set bail. Lopez remains in custody at the San Joaquin County Juvenile Detention Facility in French Camp. She did not enter a plea and is due back in court Tuesday.

Deputy District Attorney Claire Van Vuren outside of court said the investigation remains in its early stages. She is waiting to learn more from the autopsy reports.

"We can't really speculate at this time what her motive was," Van Vuren said. "With the little information we have, we felt she should be tried as an adult."

Upon seeing this story in the news, Joelle Gomez, executive director of the Women's Center of San Joaquin County, said she first wondered why the girl did not know to safely surrender the child.

Under the law, newborn babies can be given to hospitals and firehouses with no questions asked.

Gomez said it was too soon to speculate either way if the girl was a cold-blooded killer or acting out of desperation and confused.

"It's so easy at this point to ask the 'what-ifs?' " said Gomez, preferring to let the justice system do its job. "Perhaps it will all come out in time."
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by CritterFan1 Fri Feb 11, 2011 7:39 pm

A 17-year-old Central California girl charged with murdering her newborn with a pair of scissors and burying her in a shallow grave is being charged as an adult.

The Record of Stockton reports that Patricia Lopez of Holt was arraigned Thursday and charged with first-degree murder and child abuse. She did not enter a plea.

Investigators say Lopez concealed her pregnancy from her parents. They believe she gave birth Monday in her family's mobile home and killed the baby in the bathroom.

Lopez sought medical treatment Tuesday at a local hospital, prompting staff to contact the police. Investigators later found the buried remains of a premature infant near Lopez's home.

If convicted, Lopez faces 26 years to life in state prison. She is scheduled to return to court Tuesday.

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by raine1953 Sat Feb 12, 2011 3:13 am

I did see this on NG tonight. OMG, no way could I believe this! It takes a cold person to do something like this!

by Wrapitup Mon Feb 14, 2011 3:51 am

A 17-year-old California girl has been arrested and charged with murdering her newborn baby girl and burying her in a shallow grave near her parents' home.

Patricia Lopez, of Holt, an unincorporated community seven miles west of Stockton, is being charged as an adult with first-degree murder and child abuse resulting in death after allegedly using a pair of scissors to kill the newborn, state media outlets reported.

The West High School student spent about five or six months concealing her pregnancy. Then, after giving birth prematurely in the bathroom of her family's home Monday, police say she killed the newborn girl.

According to the complaint, Lopez used scissors as a weapon, but it is unclear how the scissors were used.

Lopez did not tell her parents that she had given birth and buried the baby in a shallow grave near the family's single-wide trailer.

On Tuesday, Lopez showed up at a local hospital. Doctors examined her and determined she had recently given birth. This apparently led to questions about the newborn's whereabouts and condition. The hospital called the San Joaquin County Sheriff's Department at about 5 p.m.

Police questioned Lopez, then went to her home and found the infant's body buried in a nearby shallow grave. The baby is believed to be between 22 and 26 weeks of gestation, police said.

"The 17-year-old allegedly killed the baby inside the bathroom, put it in a plastic bag and buried it ... in a hole," sheriff's Deputy Les Garcia told ABC News 10 Sacramento.

Lopez was arrested early Wednesday and booked into juvenile hall.

Garcia told the newspaper that the baby's father, whom they are not identifying, has been contacted by investigators.

On Thursday, Lopez appeared in court before Judge Richard Giuliani. The charges were read against her, and the San Joaquin County District Attorney's Office announced it was charging her as an adult. A conviction could result in a sentence of 26 years to life.

San Joaquin County Deputy Public Defender Georgia McElroy was appointed to represent Lopez during her court appearance. The defendant did not enter a plea and is scheduled to appear in court again Tuesday. Guiliani denied a request by McElroy to set bail in the case.

The San Joaquin County Sheriff's Department referred inquiries about the case to the district attorney's office. Calls to the DA were not immediately returned today.

Deputy District Attorney Claire Van Vuren told reporters she is still waiting on the autopsy report. She declined to elaborate.

"We can't really speculate at this time what her motive was," Van Vuren said, according to The Stockton Record. "With the little information we have, we felt she should be tried as an adult."

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by HippieChick Mon Feb 14, 2011 4:48 am

I remember looking down at my preemie grandchild and thinking how absolutely helpless she was. She was a little peanut. I can't imagine anyone harming a child, especially a helpless baby. WTH is wrong with people today? Everything is disposeable including babies and children.

Hippiechick

by Guest Mon Feb 14, 2011 8:10 am

How could someone kill a preemie with a pair of scissors? crying

I wonder if this girl has sisters at home? Because the Parents are lacking in their parenting skills when their 17 yr old daughter conceals her pregnancy, then kills the little baby and buries it in the back yard. All with out the Parents knowing this?

by Wrapitup Mon Feb 14, 2011 8:40 am

LM, I can't even bare to think about this. OMG!!! And, here is my little Reid who I had to buy premmie outfits for as the newborns are too big.

I think this girl didn't know what to do. Maybe she was trying to cut the cord and instead cut an arm??? OMG, I have to think of something else right now.

by Slys Hunny Mon Feb 14, 2011 12:22 pm

My last 2 babes were 25 and 29 weekers. I cant imagine ever hurting them.
I read somewhere that a Dr said the baby was so early It didnt look like a human. Im wondering about the sissors thing myself. Was she just trying to cut the cord? Im thinking the charges may not stick and could be totally unwarranted.

by Nama Tue Mar 15, 2011 1:58 am

Patricia Lopez,17, kills preemie with scissors, buries in shallow grave/ Lopez has plead GUILTY & w/be sentenced July 31. Bilde1-6

Following Lopez's brief court hearing, McFalls gathered her family in the courtroom hallway, where they clasped hands in a circle, bowed their heads and prayed. Jurors moving down the crowded hallway en route to another courtroom navigated around them.

McFalls, pastor at St. Mary of the Assumption Church in Stockton, described Lopez as a "good kid" who comes from a hardworking family. He asked the public not to jump to conclusions.

"I think the situation has everybody completely baffled," McFalls said. "It's hard to understand what was going on in her heart and mind."

Officials have said that Lopez gave birth Feb. 7 in the bathroom of her family's mobile home in Holt, a farming community west of Stockton. She killed the prematurely born baby and buried her, officials have said.

Lopez concealed the pregnancy from her parents, officials have said. She is described as standing 5 feet tall and weighing 145 pounds.

She later went to a hospital, where she was treated for complications related to childbirth. Hospital officials called investigators, who interviewed Lopez and then placed her under arrest.

Despite being a juvenile at the time, prosecutors have charged Lopez as an adult with first-degree murder and child abuse causing death.

If ultimately found guilty, she could spend 26 years to life in state prison.

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by Guest Tue Mar 15, 2011 6:36 am

She killed the prematurely born baby and buried her, officials have said.

She should be charged as an adult.

by HippieChick Sat Mar 19, 2011 8:30 am

by Praying For Faith Sat Mar 19, 2011 9:13 am

also. Wonder why she felt that she had to kill the baby. I suppose because of shame. This is horrible, all of the people that cannot have children and want to adopt a baby and this girl does something like this.

by Nama Mon Sep 05, 2011 3:25 pm

August 03, 2011 12:00 AM
STOCKTON - Despite protests from San Joaquin County's chief medical examiner, a judge presiding over a murder trial ordered Tuesday that portions of the infant victim's remains can be examined by the defense.

Patricia Lopez, 18, is accused of killing her baby girl with scissors and burying the child in a shallow grave in Holt, a tiny town in the Delta. While Lopez awaits trial, the case has focused on whether the infant's body can be released to her father, 18-year-old Maxiliano Navarro, or whether the defense can first conduct its own examination.

Chief Medical Examiner Bennet Omalu has already performed a formal autopsy. He told the court Tuesday that releasing the child's remains to an outside expert who is a clinical pathologist - as opposed to a forensic pathologist, like himself - "goes against every standard of practice."

Omalu said it could leave him legally vulnerable.

"It sets a very bad precedent," he said later, outside the courtroom. "That's why we're here."

Nevertheless, San Joaquin County Superior Court Judge William Johnson decided there was sufficient reason to allow the defense expert to examine the baby's heart, placenta, and tissue from her brain and lungs.

The baby's body will ultimately be released to her father, but not until the other remains are returned.

"We have a family waiting," San Joaquin Deputy County Counsel Matthew Dacey told the judge.

Burying the child would essentially amount to destroying evidence, a defense attorney argued earlier this spring. Johnson at that time decided the body could be released for burial, but an appeals court sent the case back for further consideration.

Lopez's public defender, Miriam Lyell, said Tuesday that the defense expert's examination of photos and other evidence raised questions whether the baby was born alive and then killed, as alleged by prosecutors. Those questions can be resolved only by inspecting the remains themselves, Lyell said.

Exactly what that outside expert saw to justify another examination was not revealed to prosecutors or the public. The judge said, however, that specific reasons are outlined in sealed documents.

"(The expert) is raising medical issues that need to be investigated," Johnson said.

Whether the defense expert is qualified to conduct a forensic examination is an issue that can be debated at trial, the judge said.

The baby's father was not in court Tuesday. He has previously asked for the body so that his family could hold services.

Lopez's family, however, was present for the hearing. A family friend, Richard Soto, said they were pleased that the judge allowed for another examination.

"If this young lady is looking at prison, let them look at all the evidence," Soto said.

Omalu said Johnson's order was the first of its kind that he'd seen in 15 years as a forensic pathologist.

He said he would abide by that order, preparing by Friday the requested portions of the baby's body for transport to Oakland, where the remains will be examined and are then to be returned.

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by InnerMomentas Sat Nov 26, 2011 6:33 am

September 27, 2011 12:00 AM
STOCKTON - A county medical examiner established that "Baby Girl Lopez," as he named her, was not only born full term, she also was delivered alive.

The product of a hidden pregnancy, her life lasted only minutes.

Her mother, 18-year-old Patricia Lopez, a studious girl who dreamed of becoming a doctor, is accused of killing the newborn soon after giving birth in the bathroom of her family's Holt mobile home in February.

She allegedly buried the remains in the backyard while everyone else in the family slept.

"There was overwhelming evidence that this baby was born alive," San Joaquin County Chief Medical Examiner Bennet Omalu said during a preliminary hearing Monday. Autopsy reports indicate that the baby had blood preasure and breathed air for a period before expiring.

Lopez, then a 17-year-old student at West High School in Tracy, apparently concealed the pregnancy from her parents until she was treated at a clinic for complications related to the childbirth.

Lopez originally told investigators that her daughter was born dead, but she later admitted that she was alive, Detective Linda Jimenez, of the Stockton Police Department's Child Abuse and Sexual Assault Unit, said at the hearing.

Lopez told police she stabbed the baby with a pair of scissors, then took a shower and combed her hair while the baby was dying, Jimenez said. Lopez told police she returned to the bathroom to clean up and bury the body, Jimenez said.

Omalu said the newborn, identified in court papers as Baby Jane Doe, was stabbed 10 times in the chest and sustained three deep wounds to her neck.

Lopez's mother, Maria De Los Angeles Lopez, waited outside the courtroom as her daughter's fate was discussed. De Los Angeles Lopez said she never suspected her daughter was pregnant.

De Los Angeles Lopez said her daughter is sweet and quiet. She worked to please her father, who was proud of her academic record.

Lopez was college-bound and always seemed to be studying.

"She didn't give us trouble. She hardly ever went out," De Los Angeles Lopez said in Spanish. "We didn't even know she had a boyfriend."

De Los Angeles Lopez, her eyelids swollen from crying, held a card-size religious image and prayed in the courthouse hallway.

Lopez was charged as an adult, facing a possible sentence of 26 years to life if convicted of first-degree murder. A judge is expected to decide today whether the case moves on to trial.

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by raine1953 Sat Nov 26, 2011 10:55 am

Anyone who is so cold that they can stab a newborn 10 times deserves to have her life taken away. I hope that cold *itch gets life.

by raine1953 Sat Nov 26, 2011 10:56 am

to VH InnerMomentas!

by InnerMomentas Sat Nov 26, 2011 11:27 am

I hope she learnes to respect and value life. She needs to do something about this. As an inmate she still retains freedom of speech. She can use this to warn others not to take the same path she did. It's up to her. Hating her would only encourage the motives that lead her to do this horrible thing. I'm not exactly sure I agree with a life sentence. Thankyou for welcoming m to the sight 'raine1953'.

by Guest Sat Nov 26, 2011 12:32 pm

InnerMomentas

by raine1953 Sun Nov 27, 2011 1:45 am

InnerMomentas wrote:I hope she learnes to respect and value life. She needs to do something about this. As an inmate she still retains freedom of speech. She can use this to warn others not to take the same path she did. It's up to her. Hating her would only encourage the motives that lead her to do this horrible thing. I'm not exactly sure I agree with a life sentence. Thankyou for welcoming m to the sight 'raine1953'.

With all due respect, a person who commits such a heinous crime is one cold cookie. That baby was born alive and that girl stabbed it then jumped into the shower while it died. It was very hard for me to even read what she did. As far as I'm concerned she can learn the values of life locked away in prison. It sounds like the baby got in the way of her college plans, she didn't even let her parents know she was pregnant, it sounds like this is an intelligent girl who had to know abortion is legal and she should have taken that route Vs mutilating that poor little defenseless newborn. Life sounds too good for her. MOO.

by InnerMomentas Mon Nov 28, 2011 5:03 pm

As far as I'm concerned she can learn the values of life locked away in prison.

It's my testament that the punishment should evoke a change in character rather than simply enforcing the system.

With all due respect, a person who commits such a heinous crime is one cold cookie.

My thoughts were rather what could have gotten into this girl to make her do something like this?

It sounds like the baby got in the way of her college plans

Yes the reason was her newborn baby got in the way of her college plans. But we need to consider why that was such an issue to her. There are a lot of mitigating factors to consider here.

it sounds like this is an intelligent girl who had to know abortion is legal and she should have taken that route Vs mutilating that poor little defenseless newborn.

As for not getting an abortion, her parents with their background would probably not have supported it. Besides getting an abortion is just a much more benign way of committing murder. Not that there was anything benign with what she did. I’m pro life by the way.

Life sounds too good for her.

This girl is very young. Seventeen when she murdered her child. Immaturity played a role in the events leading up to this. There is room for her to mature and possibly make a difference. A life sentence with a bunch of hardened inmates out to get her would not be the ideal environment for a maturing young lady. I agree with law professor John Schick that it should be reduced to eleven years for manslaughter. Those years though should be spent on character building.

If you have a problem with than we better make way for more prisons. That's more crime with a capital C. I believe that we need to temper justice with mercy here.

by Guest Mon Nov 28, 2011 5:22 pm

How about life in prison with a chance of parole? She should not get less than life as she took a life. That is mercy when you consider some States have the death penalty for crimes like this. I too feel sympathy for all the mentally ill people in Prison to a certain extent. I believe in mercy in some situations.

by InnerMomentas Tue Nov 29, 2011 4:24 pm

She did commit first degree murder. A chance of parole would be merciful. As far as my feelings about 17 being too young for a life sentence, I challenge myself that perhaps I should define an age of maturity by what someones knows and understands in regards to their actions rather than letting feelings determine the age that one can receive a life sentence.

by InnerMomentas Tue Dec 06, 2011 11:37 am

September 28, 2011 12:00 AM
STOCKTON - Patricia Lopez, a teenager prosecutors say took her newborn's life, will stand trial for the child's death, San Joaquin County Superior Court Judge William Johnson determined Tuesday.

Lopez was 17 years old when she reportedly gave birth on her bathroom floor in February. Prosecutors say she stabbed the infant with scissors then buried her in the backyard.

Lopez, who is being tried as an adult, has been held on charges of child abuse and premeditated murder.

San Joaquin County coroner's findings indicate the full-term baby, identified in court papers as Baby Jane Doe, was alive before stab wounds to her chest and scissor-cuts on her neck claimed her life.

Investigators have said Lopez confessed during an interview to killing the baby.

Lopez concealed her pregnancy as well as her boyfriend from her parents, who live in a Holt farming community.

Her then-boyfriend, 18-year-old Maximilano Navarro, said during a preliminary hearing that Lopez told him she had miscarried. He later learned of the baby's death when the story surfaced in the news.

Lopez and Navarro were students at Tracy's West High School.

At the hearing, Navarro said Lopez worried about her parents' reactions and having a tough future as a young parent.

Lopez's mother, Maria De Los Angeles Lopez, said her daughter was a good student who hoped to become a doctor.

Father Dean McFalls of St. Mary's Church, who visits Lopez and other jail inmates every month, attended her hearing Monday.

He said that even though he is pro-life, he feels compassion for Lopez.

"I see a child who must somehow have panicked so deeply that she could do what we heard being described today," McFalls said. "As a priest, I care about her deeply. At the same time, the details were horrendous."

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Does anyone have any additional information about the case beyond Sept 28th. I've surfed all up n' down the internet, but I can't find a thing on it.

by Guest Tue Dec 06, 2011 6:25 pm

It doesn't look like there has been anything since that date.

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by InnerMomentas Thu Dec 08, 2011 1:19 am

SixxChick wrote:It doesn't look like there has been anything since that date.

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What's your thoughts about the case?

I can say that as a Security Officer I deal with low blows every day. They continually do everything they can to buck the system. Patricia Lopez on the other hand has past done no such thing apart from this tragic isolated incident. She has had no prior altercations with family, church, or the law. There are plenty of others I think deserve a life sentence behind bars. I must say that as of the present I have compassion for this girl as does the priest who is in constant contact with the family.

by Guest Thu Dec 08, 2011 8:35 am

Priests are suppose to have compassion. I hear what you are saying InnerMomentas. She does not have a violent past. No way will I believe this was premeditated so I don't understand the murder 1. confused

I think she flipped out and killed an innocent baby. It is very sad. I have visions in my mind of this young Mom stabbing a new born baby over and over. That is tough for me to handle. It is hard to feel compassion with those thoughts/visions running through my mind.
Patricia Lopez is very ill like so many other murderers. I believe she needs to be in a maximum security mental health ward Prison.

by raine1953 Thu Dec 08, 2011 9:52 am

by Wrapitup Thu Dec 08, 2011 1:56 pm

She does not have a violent past

Neither did that nut job that molested and murdered that poor little girl. I am on the fence on this one.

by raine1953 Thu Dec 08, 2011 2:21 pm

I am not on the fence on this one. She may not have a violent past but she's only 17 years old! She may be mental and in that case she can go live in a prison mental hospital. I cannot get the image out of my head of a tiny little baby being stabbed with a knife!!!!!!! WHAT kind of person can do that??????? Even if she flipped out OMG that's a flip out not many people can do. Her and that nut job that raped and viciously killed that little girl this week can go room together. JMOO of course.

by InnerMomentas Thu Dec 08, 2011 4:03 pm

I understand that this is a very sensitive issue. When I read that the baby was born full term and alive, it took the edge off of my compassion. I do though plead that we hate murder with a passion, but not the person who committed the murder. Please....

by Guest Thu Dec 08, 2011 4:25 pm

InnerMomentas wrote: I understand that this is a very sensitive issue. When I read that the baby was born full term and alive, it took the edge off of my compassion. I do though plead that we hate murder with a passion, but not the person who committed the murder. Please....

I understand and it shows the depth of your compassion. Your opinion is much appreciated here. I don't feel like I am on a fence regarding this case. I have had so many people tell me KC was a product of her environment blaming Casey Anthony Parents for how KC turned out and what KC did to Caylee. I say Bull to the Sh*t on that one. The verdict in that one case alone convinced many Parent out there you can get away with murder in this country. We can't let our compassion be wasted on Parents that kill their children in cold blood.

by laga Thu Dec 08, 2011 5:05 pm

Compassion is defined as a deep awareness of the suffering of another coupled with the wish to relieve it.

If it is agreed a murderer has a defect of some kind and therefore is "suffering" from this defect and we as a society have an awareness of this suffering and as a society have a wish to relieve the murderer of this "suffering" then the most compassionate thing we can do to relieve them of their "suffering" is to relieve them of their life.

by InnerMomentas Thu Dec 08, 2011 5:19 pm

I believe she needs to be in a maximum security mental health ward Prison. .

I agree that that is where she should be placed. She would be safer there. I hoping the her defence attourney will push for temporary insanity.

My cousins children were a joy to play with. I can remember getting on my hand n' knees; building with legos, racing matchbox cars, and watching looney toons with them. I wouldn't trade that experience for the world. I love these kids no matter what. There near to their teens now. It's hard to believe how fast time flys.

by Slys Hunny Thu Dec 08, 2011 5:32 pm

I gave birth to a 25 and 29 week babies I have nocompassion for her. I watched my babys fight for every breath they took!

by raine1953 Thu Dec 08, 2011 5:41 pm

My little brother was born in 1960 at 7 months and was 3 lbs. It was almost unheard of for those babies to survive but he's alive and well to this day. He looked like a little monkey, had a complete blood transfusion at three days old. I have no compassion for her.

by InnerMomentas Sun Dec 11, 2011 5:39 pm

October 08, 2011 12:00 AM
STOCKTON — Arraignment for a teenager accused of killing her newborn baby after she gave birth on her bathroom floor was rescheduled Friday to Nov. 14.

Patricia Lopez was a minor when she reportedly concealed her pregnancy and had the baby in February. She gave birth during the day while her parents were away at work. It was previously incorrectly reported that her parents were at home sleeping.

Lopez, now 18, is being tried as an adult because of the violent nature of the case.

San Joaquin County coroner’s findings indicate the baby — identified as Baby Jane Doe — was born full-term and alive before she suffered scissor wounds to her chest and neck.

Lopez’s parents, unaware their daughter was pregnant, said she was a good student who planned to attend college and enter the medical field.

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by InnerMomentas Sun Dec 11, 2011 5:45 pm

I’m going to reiterate myself on a few things.

How about life in prison with a chance of parole? She should not get less than life as she took a life

I agree that she should be given life in a maximum security health ward prison. I think the chance of parole would be merciful especially if it‘s earlier into the sentence.

If it is agreed a murderer has a defect of some kind and therefore is "suffering" from this defect and we as a society have an awareness of this suffering and as a society have a wish to relieve the murderer of this "suffering" then the most compassionate thing we can do to relieve them of their "suffering" is to relieve them of their life.

I totally agree that she should be relieved of her life. However I defend the possibility that Patricia Lopez can change and make a difference in the name of Baby Jane Doe under the directive of trained counselors. That I feel would do justice for the child. I do hope the death penalty was not what was meant here. I am pro life.

I appreciate the ones on here that I have tried to understand where I am coming from as I have tried to half way meet the opinions of others in an attempt to more clearly understand what needs to be done here.

The fact that she gave birth and killed the child while her parents were at work is now even more disheartening. One again a bit more compassion has slipped through my fingers. If she is unremorseful for her actions than she deserves whatever misfortune befalls her within the legal proceedings of the state of California.

If our children were to do something this horrible, would we still love them, or would we forsake them? Now that is the question that I feel needs to be addressed.

by Guest Sun Dec 11, 2011 6:36 pm

InnerMomentas asked If our children were to do something this horrible, would we still love them, or would we forsake them? Now that is the question that I feel needs to be addressed.

I would still love my Child but I would forsake them. I would ask God to forgive them and I would pray for their souls. But I would never want them free to do something like that again.

by InnerMomentas Sun Dec 11, 2011 6:42 pm

Thankyou for your honesty LindaMarie. I see and understand what you're saying.

by Guest Sun Dec 11, 2011 7:09 pm

Your welcome. I sure hope that don't make me sound like a horrible Parent.

by InnerMomentas Sun Dec 11, 2011 7:10 pm

No, not at all. It makes you sound like a responsible parent.

by raine1953 Sun Dec 11, 2011 8:04 pm

InnerMomentas wrote:I’m going to reiterate myself on a few things.

How about life in prison with a chance of parole? She should not get less than life as she took a life
I agree that she should be given life in a maximum security health ward prison. I think the chance of parole would be merciful especially if it‘s earlier into the sentence.

If it is agreed a murderer has a defect of some kind and therefore is "suffering" from this defect and we as a society have an awareness of this suffering and as a society have a wish to relieve the murderer of this "suffering" then the most compassionate thing we can do to relieve them of their "suffering" is to relieve them of their life.
I totally agree that she should be relieved of her life. However I defend the possibility that Patricia Lopez can change and make a difference in the name of Baby Jane Doe under the directive of trained counselors. That I feel would do justice for the child. I do hope the death penalty was not what was meant here. I am pro life.

I am definitely not pro life, which to me means it is a woman's choice to be pro life or to intelligently decide to terminate the pregnancy early on and I am for the death penalty in certain circumstances. I will never vote for the death penalty again nor would I cast a vote on a jury for it because there's been so many mistakes and at best people have served many years (or their entire life) or have been executed when they had been innocent. I do not think the death penalty is a deterint. Patricia Lopez butchered her precious newborn and I do not believe she deserves second chances. She chose not to give her baby a second chance at life by taking him to a hospital or fire station, which is legal in our state.

If our children were to do something this horrible, would we still love them, or would we forsake them? Now that is the question that I feel needs to be addressed.
I'm sure I'd still love my child but if he/she had slaughtered a tiny little newborn I do believe I'd forsake them and leave it all up to the state of CA to decide his/her life.

by InnerMomentas Sun Dec 11, 2011 9:24 pm

I will never vote for the death penalty again nor would I cast a vote on a jury for it because there's been so many mistakes and at best people have served many years (or their entire life) or have been executed when they had been innocent.

I agree with what your saying here. That's a major reason why I'm agianst the dealth penalty. I also think that people can change. There have been people who have been put to death that had totally turned themselves around and were making a difference. To deprive them of life at that point is to me on the same scale as cold blooded murder.

The reason why I inquired what we do if our own children committed this kind of a crime was to see if passion was clouding our judgement. Your responses are very clear headed.

I don't have children of my own, but if I did and they committed the crime in question, I don't think I could bare to see them put to death for it. But I would definately cast my vote agianst them. Either way I would fall apart in utter dispair. I wouldn't be able to take the loss of a grandchild and a daughter or son for that matter. It would be the end of me as well because they were a part of me.

by InnerMomentas Sun Dec 11, 2011 9:49 pm

I think one of the greatest expressions of judgement tempered by mercy can be found in a conversation between General Robert E. Lee and General Stuart in the movie 'Gettysburg'. I've always been interested in the Civil War period, so bare with me as I go off topic for a sec to kind of show my sentiments on the topic at hand.
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Enjoy the clip!

by Wrapitup Sun Dec 11, 2011 9:54 pm

I don't have children of my own, but if I did and they committed the crime in question, I don't think I could bare to see them put to death for it. But I would definately cast my vote agianst them. Either way I would fall apart in utter dispair. I wouldn't be able to take the loss of a grandchild and a daughter or son for that matter. It would be the end of me as well because they were a part of me.

I think it is easy to Monday Morning Quarterback what we would do, think, say or feel if we lost our child. We have members here that have and they are very, very strong. So, Please know that I am saying this with the utmost respect. But, God Forbid, should it happen to one of us, we really have no way of knowing what we would do.

by raine1953 Sun Dec 11, 2011 10:04 pm

So true Wrap. That's why I said 'I believe'.

by InnerMomentas Sun Dec 11, 2011 10:10 pm

Are you saying that this forum has members here that have had a son or daughter put to death for a crime they committed? I can tell you right now I could not stand by and let someone inject my son or daughter with lethal ingredients intended to bring death. I'm telling you strieght. They go; I go.

by raine1953 Sun Dec 11, 2011 10:24 pm

No but what I am telling you that this forum has members who have lost their children to murder! And if the murderer was sentenced to death, so be it and I wouldn't give a crap what the parents of that person thought at all.

by raine1953 Sun Dec 11, 2011 10:29 pm

And I will stand behind every single person on here who has lost a family member or friend at the hands of another. If you happen to run across on of these people who are a member here, be respectful. It's their pain and not yours.

by InnerMomentas Sun Dec 11, 2011 10:38 pm

I would of course feel bad for them, but I would also equally feel bad for all the other parties involved. They matter too because everyone is suffering one way or the other.

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