Casey Anthony - The Great Probation Debate/ PROBATION DISCUSSION ONLY ON THIS THREAD, PLEASE/ Casey Anthony is off probation — what's next for her?

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Post by artgal16 on Thu Aug 04, 2011 1:07 pm

bLAWg, bLOG, BLAHg by Criminal Lawyer Richard Hornsby
The Great Probation Debate
Aug 2nd, 2011
by Richard Hornsby.

The Check Fraud Case

On Monday, January 25, 2010 Casey Anthony pleaded guilty Monday to 13 counts of check fraud. At the time of her plea, she was also being held in jail without bond on charges of murder, manslaughter, and lying to police.
Judge Strickland or Judge Solomon

In what can only be described as recognition of the chess game the State was playing with Ms. Anthony’s life by demanding the check fraud case go to trial first, Judge Strickland did not formally convict her on all 13 check fraud counts and instead threw her a lifeline by withholding the adjudication of guilt on 7 of the counts. (As I had predicted he would prior to the sentencing.)

By withholding guilt on 7 of the counts, Casey Anthony was only considered a six-time convicted felony; as opposed to a 13 time convicted felon. At the time, the felony convictions were extremely valuable to the State Attorney for impeachment purposes should Casey Anthony testify or her self-serving statements somehow be admitted (which Jose Baez almost opened the door too).
The “Catch”

But by withholding adjudication there was a legal catch. Under Florida Statute 948.01, a judge cannot withhold adjudication of guilt on a felony UNLESS they also place the person on probation.

And that is exactly what Judge Strickland did, even though everyone knew she was being held in jail on No Bond for the murder case, Judge Strickland ORALLY pronounced that she was sentenced to the 412 days she already spent in jail on the check fraud charges, but for each count he Withheld Adjudication of Guilt on, he also placed her on One Year of Supervised Probation to be served “once released.”
An Indefinite Sentence?

Almost immediately after Judge Strickland explained his sentence, Assistant State Attorney Frank George raised his concerns that such a sentence would be considered an “indefinite” sentence under Florida law (which is illegal) because Ms. Anthony would obviously be held in jail and therefore could not begin her probation for the foreseeable future.

Judge Strickland stuck with his original pronouncement and stated that if the State could think of a better idea, they should file a motion seeking the better idea. They never did.
The Confusion

While Judge Strickland’s intentions were clear, there seems to have been some confusion because the sentencing minutes that were generated after the hearing, and which Judge Strickland signed, simply stated credit for 412 days jail followed by one year of supervised probation. Notably, the sentencing minutes never contained the magical words “upon release” at the end of the sentence – not that they needed to.

And because the sentencing minutes lacked the magical words “upon release,” the Florida Department of Corrections unilaterally decided that her probation began running while she was in jail and her probation ended on January 24, 2011.

Presumably, the reason they interpreted it this way is that she was in jail awaiting sentence, as opposed to serving a sentence. (Never mind she was ultimately sentenced to all the time spent awaiting trial and then some.) Thus by giving her credit for the time she spent in jail towards her probation she was allowed to double dip and essentially get a two for one.

And since nobody brought the Department of Corrections oversight to the court, no clarification was ever provided from Judge Strickland’s office.

Which brings us to the heart of the matter, was there a discrepancy between Judge Strickland’s oral sentence and the sentencing minutes in the first place. If so, did it even need to be clarified?
The Legality of Judge Strickland’s Sentence

To begin, the Florida Supreme Court has held time and time again that “a court’s oral pronouncement of sentence controls over the written document.” State v. Jones, 753 So. 2d 1276 (Fla. 2000) This principal was recently reaffirmed by the Florida Supreme Court in State v. Akins, 36 Fla. L. Weekly S215a (Fla. May 26, 2011) (“when there is a discrepancy between the written sentence and ‘the oral pronouncement, the oral pronouncement prevails.’)

As a result, even if there was a discrepancy between Judge Strickland’s oral pronouncement of sentence, where he said the probation was to begin “once released” and the written minutes that omitted these “magical words,” the oral sentence still controls – irrespective of how the defense or the Department of Corrections wants to interpret it.
Did Written Order Actually Conflict with Oral Sentence?

Nonetheless, even if the written sentencing minutes did not contain the magical words “upon release,” Judge Strickland did not legally have to even include them in his oral pronouncement for Casey Anthony’s probation to have begun “once released.”

This is because the general rule is that when a person is sentenced to incarceration followed by probation and the person completes the custodial portion of the sentence, but nonetheless remains incarcerated on another offense, the probationary portion is tolled (meaning does not begin) until the person is released from incarceration in the other case being held on. See Brooks v. State, 762 So. 2d 1011 (Fla. 5th DCA 2000). This means that absent specific language stating that Casey Anthony’s probation was to run while she remained in jail, her probation was tolled by operation of law – Judge Strickland was not required to include any magical language stating “upon release.”
Does the Defense have a Legitimate Double Jeopardy Argument?

Actually, the defense has TWO legitimate Double Jeopardy arguments.
Argument 1: Being Supervised Twice

The first argument is that requiring Casey Anthony to report to probation now amounts to double jeopardy since the Department of Corrections already “supervised” her for one year while she was in jail.

The problem with this argument is that Casey Anthony never actually did anything; a probation officer visited her at least one time and then verified her continued incarceration for the next twelve months (thus accounting for the “contacts” DOC references – read look her up online). My gut feeling is that a Court of appeals would not be to sympathetic to Ms. Anthony, because she was not actually reporting to probation and there was no impediment placed on her liberty.

I think an appellate court would say that one that the Department of Corrections actions did not amount to supervision and two, they could not supervise someone without lawful authority. And as explained earlier, a person cannot serve probation while in jail (unless the jail is made a specific condition of probation).
Argument 2: “Clarification Order” is Void

The second argument is that Judge Strickland’s Clarification Order amounts to double jeopardy because Casey Anthony had already served her sentence and the Judge’s jurisdiction to clarify the sentence had long since expired. Therefore, once a sentence has been imposed and the person begins to serve the sentence, that sentence may not be increased without running afoul of double jeopardy principles. Ashley v. State, 850 So. 2d 1265 (Fla. 2003)
Scrivener’s Error

On its face, this argument is correct. As a Judge only has 60 days from the date of a sentence to correct a scrivener’s error, which refers to a mistake in the written sentence that is at variance with the oral pronouncement of sentence or the record but not those errors that are the result of a judicial determination or error. Rule 3.800 Fla.R.Crim.Pro.

In Ms. Anthony’s case, the judge’s 60 days of jurisdiction expired on March 26, 2010. As a result, the “Clarification Order” entered by Judge Strickland is void, illegal, and unenforceable. Stang v. State, 24 So. 3d 566 (Fla. 2d DCA 2009); rev. denied. State v. Stang, 41 So. 3d 206 (Fla. 2010).
Warren Stang and Casey Anthony Sitting in a Tree, Dou-ble Jeop-ar-dy

Stang is an important case because on its face it is very similar to Ms. Anthony’s case. In Stang’s case, he was sentenced to consecutive sentences on multiple counts in a violation of probation case and given a total of 27 years in prison. Notably, the written sentencing order intended for him to get credit for 1,915 days towards the 27 years; meaning he would have about 23 more years to do.

However, his sentencing minutes appeared to give him 1,915 days credit towards each count. The net result was that he only had 2 more months on his sentence, not 23 years. The Department of Corrections noticed this and asked the judge to clarify his sentence. So 67 days after the sentence was imposed, the court entered a “Clarification Order” (sound familiar) saying that the credit was towards the total years, not each count.

The appellate court upheld the two month interpretation, finding that the Court lacked jurisdiction to clarify the order because more than 60 days passed and finding that based on double jeopardy, once credit has been awarded, it cannot be rescinded – even if granted in complete error.

What is notable about this case is that the State Attorney’s Office never challenged the defendant’s post-conviction motions on the merits. Because if they had, the transcripts of the oral pronouncement shows that the credit was only given towards the years, not each count.

And this is notable, because the case went all the way to the Florida Supreme Court; and the Florida Supreme Court denied review of the case specifically because the State Attorney did not provide the transcripts until after the case had been affirmed by the District Court of Appeal (meaning the State simply argued the case based on the sentencing minutes and did not get the hearing transcribed). See State v. Stang, 41 So. 3d 206 (Fla. 2010).

What the clear indication of this procedural defense means is that had the transcript originally been provided to the lower courts; the Florida Supreme Court would likely have agreed that the oral sentence controls and Mr. Stang had 24 more years in prison to complete.
The Current Situation

This brings us to the current situation in Ms. Anthony’s case. It is understood that the defense will first file a Motion to Disqualify or recuse Judge Strickland. I have no doubt that Judge Strickland will grant his request and the case will then be turned over to a new judge.
Can the Successor Judge Vacate Judge Strickland’s Clarification Order

The Defense will have 20 days to file a Motion for Reconsideration asking the successor judge to vacate the Clarification Order entered by Judge Strickland. See Rule 2.330, Fla.R.Jud.Admin.

It is my opinion that the new judge will likely agree to vacate Judge Strickland’s Clarification Order, as it is clearly Void and unenforceable under Stang v. State, 24 So. 3d 566 (Fla. 2d DCA 2009)
Coming Full Circle

However, just because Judge Strickland’s Clarification Order is void and unenforceable; it does not mean his original sentence is unenforceable.

To the contrary, Judge Strickland’s original sentence still controls and the Department of Corrections – as a member of the executive branch – has a duty to enforce it. This is because, by operation of law, Ms. Anthony’s probation was tolled while she was in jail awaiting trial on the murder case.

If the defense wants to then argue that she was supervised in jail and thus double jeopardy prevents her from being supervised again; by all means, they should argue it – I know I would.

But that has been my point from the very beginning, it is not for the State Attorney or the Department of Corrections to decide whether requiring Ms. Anthony to report to probation as Judge Strickland intended amounts to Double Jeopardy – it is up to a court to decide.
Have Some Balls Lawson Lamar; Defend Strickland’s Sentence

I know next year is an election year and you want to distance yourself from Ms. Anthony and the boondogle of a prosecution you put on lest a formidable opponent emerge to run against you.

But seriously, the Very Honorable Lawson Lamar needs to grow a sack and defend Judge Strickland’s sentence and provide this community with some sense that you aren’t afraid of big bad lawyers like Mike Snure, Donald Lykkebak, and “gulp,” Cheney Mason, who make mince-meat our of your high profile cases.

If you thought she was such a danger to society that you were committed enough to have her executed, I think you should be committed enough to at least try and have the Department of Corrections execute a simple probation sentence on her for one year.

If you don’t, the irony is indeed rich that Jose Baez and Cheney Mason ultimately made you their Bitch.

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Normal Re: Casey Anthony - The Great Probation Debate/ PROBATION DISCUSSION ONLY ON THIS THREAD, PLEASE/ Casey Anthony is off probation — what's next for her?

Post by Wrapitup on Fri Aug 05, 2011 2:03 am

Let's discuss her probation or lack thereof here. No other subjects re: the lying slut EXCEPT her probation.

Thanks!!

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Normal Re: Casey Anthony - The Great Probation Debate/ PROBATION DISCUSSION ONLY ON THIS THREAD, PLEASE/ Casey Anthony is off probation — what's next for her?

Post by Wrapitup on Fri Aug 05, 2011 2:14 am

Wrapitup wrote:Let's discuss her probation or lack thereof here. No other subjects re: the lying slut EXCEPT her probation.

Thanks!!

For any other comments re: "they lying slut", please go here:

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Last edited by Wrapitup on Fri Aug 05, 2011 9:31 pm; edited 1 time in total

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Post by Guest on Fri Aug 05, 2011 7:08 am

artgal thank you for posting this article and starting this thread.

I wonder if JP will uphold the ruling and actually impose Probation for 1 yr? I have my doubts that JP will impose it now. I think "The Department of Corrections" screwed up big time and because of that KC may walk away from Probation as well. KC walking out of there free has never felt "right" to me. "If only someone had done their job".
grrrr
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Post by Nama on Fri Aug 05, 2011 8:44 am

The hearing is on CNN HLN right now. Probation officer is testifying over the phone.

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Post by artgal16 on Fri Aug 05, 2011 8:48 am

Listening to the hearing Mr George as usual asks questions that he obviously didn know the answer himself of the probabtion officer.
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Post by Guest on Fri Aug 05, 2011 9:26 am

Frank George says serving probation in jail defeats the purpose. Prosecutor Frank George asserts that probation is used to help criminals assimilate back in to society under supervision
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Post by Guest on Fri Aug 05, 2011 9:28 am

George argues that an omission or error can indeed be amended or corrected, as he says was done in this case
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Post by Guest on Fri Aug 05, 2011 9:34 am

Judge Perry says if anything could go wrong, it went wrong here. Says he needs to read more.
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Post by Guest on Fri Aug 05, 2011 9:35 am

Judge Perry says he is well aware of the threats that have been waged against Casey Anthony, he will make sure she is protected.
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Post by artgal16 on Fri Aug 05, 2011 9:36 am

He wont rule today, he just doesnt know what to do at this point, he has to find some kind of case law to support bringing her back into probation and supervision
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Post by Guest on Fri Aug 05, 2011 9:42 am

Judge Perry says he's not ready to make a ruling. "I just don't know the answer at this time...you've given me a lot to think about."
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Post by Nama on Fri Aug 05, 2011 9:44 am

JP says this is a mess!

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Post by Nama on Fri Aug 05, 2011 9:54 am

I wonder if the lying slut is watching the hearing on tv?

JP hinted at administrative probation......don't have to report in person, just over the phone. Casey would have to walk the straight and narrow or end up back in the clinker.
JVM said this mess is like trying to "unring" a bell. How do you do that?

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Post by artgal16 on Fri Aug 05, 2011 10:03 am

How are Judges appointed in Florida - are they elected?
Does anyone know. I think he will make her serve probation but not directly come back to Orlando maybe as BJ posted over the phone
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Post by Nama on Fri Aug 05, 2011 10:11 am

Regardless of how Casey serves this probation someone better be watching her like a hawk! If she so much as jaywalks toss her in a cell and throw away the key. Personally, I don't think she'll do well having to live by rules and it will just be a matter of time before she's back before a judge.

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Post by Wrapitup on Fri Aug 05, 2011 9:37 pm

artgal16 wrote:How are Judges appointed in Florida - are they elected?
Does anyone know. I think he will make her serve probation but not directly come back to Orlando maybe as BJ posted over the phone
Yes, they are elected. I agree that he w/make her serve probation over the phone. I highly doubt he will dismiss the Order for Probation entirely.

I am somewhat miffed at Strickland. He rules again on this, recuses himself (for making comments on NG, I believe), goes on vacation and now poor JP has to deal with the lying slut again. Poor JP!! He is probably sick to death of dealing with Bozo and Mason!

What I don't get is: once she was found Not Guilty ( It\\'s Not Fair ) why didn't Strickland REMEMBER his Order immediately? WTH? He bugs me! She would NOT have walked out of that jail w/Bozo and all the hoopla until this was resolved one way or the other. over reaction

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Post by Wrapitup on Fri Aug 05, 2011 9:39 pm

I wonder IF JP orders Probation via telephone will her address be released to the media? He w/probably rule the media is barred from knowing her physical address. Then, the media (probably The Orlando Sentinel) will file an order for her address to be released per The Sunshine State laws. It Never ends!!

Also, I DO think those pics in Ohio are her. I think she and TMZ had a deal and she made some dinero off those pics. MOO.

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Post by artgal16 on Fri Aug 05, 2011 10:02 pm

Im not so sure that JP will make her serve probation, but if he says she has to, I think he will make her come back to Florida. As to the pics
they look staged to me and I actually do not see much of a resemblence
at all. The girl in those pictures looks bi-racial to me, wrong eye color and I think that is a wig under the hat!
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Normal Judge Belvin Perry Delays Casey Probation Status, Calls Case "A Mess"

Post by Wrapitup on Fri Aug 05, 2011 10:04 pm

A judge deciding whether Casey Anthony has to return to Florida to serve probation for check fraud ended a hearing Friday without a ruling, calling the case "a mess."

"The best I can say is this is a legal maze," Judge Belvin Perry said. "This is a legal morass."

INSIDE COURTROOM: Images Of Baez, Judge Perry
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RAW VIDEO: Casey Probation Hearing Pt. 1 | Pt. 2 | Pt. 3
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Judge Belvin Perry didn't indicate when he would issue a ruling.
Casey didn't attend the hearing, which involves a case separate from her high-profile murder trial that ended with her acquittal last month.

Casey has disappeared from the public eye since a jury found her not guilty in the death of her 2-year-old daughter, Caylee, and she was released from the Orange County jail. Her lawyers have not disclosed her location expect to say she was out of state earlier this week.

Another judge sentenced her in January 2010 to probation after she pleaded guilty to using checks stolen from a friend. Judge Stan Strickland said during the sentencing hearing that Casey should serve the probation upon her release from prison or jail. But those instructions never made it into a written order and corrections officials interpreted the sentence to mean Casey could serve the probation while she was in jail awaiting trial. This was a total LACK of communication on the part of Corrections Officials IMHO. And, Judge Strickland should have had this in the back of his head IF she were released. I realize that No One expected her to be found Not Guilty but she WAS and it was then up to the Judge to Remember this!! MOO! Strickland issued an amended order earlier this week, clarifying that Casey needs to start serving probation now that she is out of jail.

Strickland recused himself from the case, which is why Judge Perry is now handling it.

Her attorneys argued at the hearing that Casey already has served the probation and to do so again would be double jeopardy. They also argued that Strickland didn't have jurisdiction over the case anymore and that his original sentencing order could not be corrected more than 60 days after it was issued.

The defense admitted it knew that Casey was not supposed to serve her probation while still in jail, but also knew that the corrections department started her probation and ended it while she was still in jail and never said a word to anyone. So, they KNEW and they figured this would never be an issue.

"Is it ethical for you not to say anything about the probation that she serving in jail? As an officer of the court should you have alerted people about that?" WFTV reporter Kathi Belich asked Casey's attorneys after Friday's hearing.

The attorneys didn't answer the question.


Now, the defense argues that it is just too late to go back and do it the way it was supposed to be done.

But Judge Perry said he's not so sure. He said it's unclear how long a judge has to correct a clerical error.

"There are no clear cut answers in this case. It's a mess," Perry said.

Perry said he's going to do more research before deciding whether to put Casey back on probation, but if he does, it might be administrative probation, which means she just has to go one year without being arrested again. She wouldn’t be required to look for a job and it would only cost her $50. B.S.!! She should be treated like anyone else on probation even if she reports once a week via telephone. She Needs to have a job..IDK what it is..go to a strip club or work for Larry Flynt. Whatever!! This is NOT right! 🇳🇴 huge waste BS crap

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Post by jeanne1807 on Fri Aug 05, 2011 10:50 pm

Wrapitup wrote:I wonder IF JP orders Probation via telephone will her address be released to the media? He w/probably rule the media is barred from knowing her physical address. Then, the media (probably The Orlando Sentinel) will file an order for her address to be released per The Sunshine State laws. It Never ends!!

Also, I DO think those pics in Ohio are her. I think she and TMZ had a deal and she made some dinero off those pics. MOO.

Yes those pictures are of Casey. She has put on a few pounds but it is she.

This is what I like the most about Judge Perry. He seems honest. He said "it's a mess" and "I don't know what to do". How many judges would be that forthwright in their comments.

Most of them act like they know it all.

The way everything seems to go in Caseys favor..she might walk on this one.

Quite honestly I look for Casey to get into trouble again. Shoplifting is the way I am leaning.
She is a thief and she is a sociopath. Why wouldn't she take something if she wanted it.

It won't be long folks. Karma really is a bitch.
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Post by Wrapitup on Fri Aug 05, 2011 11:07 pm

I agree I agree I agree I agree

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Normal Re: Casey Anthony - The Great Probation Debate/ PROBATION DISCUSSION ONLY ON THIS THREAD, PLEASE/ Casey Anthony is off probation — what's next for her?

Post by Wrapitup on Tue Aug 09, 2011 8:24 pm

Casey Anthony's bills either unpaid, not pursued or waived. Judge expected to rule on whether Casey Anthony will have to serve probation.

By Anthony Colarossi, Orlando Sentinel
6:54 p.m. EDT, August 9, 2011

Adding to the debacle that has become Casey Anthony's in-jail probation is the fact that she did not pay court, investigation, prosecution or supervision costs related to her check-fraud case.

Investigative costs came to $5,517 in that case – an amount that Judge Stan Strickland initially meant for her to pay, according to a transcript of Anthony's Jan. 25, 2010 sentencing.

But during that proceeding, Strickland reserved ruling on paying those investigative costs because there was uncertainty about the prosecution cost amount. He advised the prosecution and defense to work together on the matter and said, "We'll deal with it later."

They never revisited the issue, according to the state.

Meanwhile, Anthony was also supposed to pay $348 in court costs within 90 days of Strickland's sentencing — that didn't happen either. But an Arizona man paid $10 toward that bill, said Clerk of Courts spokeswoman Leesa Bainbridge.

And then Florida Department of Corrections and its Probation & Parole Services waived the costs of her supervision — $20 per month, according to Strickland's order — because she was in jail and lacked income while she was supervised. Oh, B.S!! Her parents and MEN were sending her money!

Anthony's probation status in the check fraud case became a controversy last month after DOC confirmed it had Anthony serve probation in jail for her fraud convictions while awaiting trial in the death of her 2-year-old daughter Caylee Marie.

Orange-Osceola Chief Judge Belvin Perry is expected to rule — possibly today — on whether Anthony should serve probation now, after her release from jail, as Strickland intended.

The 25-year-old pleaded guilty in the check-fraud case early last year, but was acquitted last month of first-degree murder and other serious charges.

Upon her release from jail on July 17, some were confused about whether she would start serving probation then, but DOC said she already had been supervised.

Strickland then publicly stated he intended for Anthony to serve her probation upon her release from jail and amended his written order to reflect his intent.

He also recused himself from the check-fraud case, leaving Perry to decide whether Anthony can legally serve probation now.

Probation a 'legal fiction'


While some now describe Anthony's in-jail probation as a "legal fiction," other parts of her check-fraud sentence seem just as illusory.

Reviewing the sentencing transcript and court and probation records shows that costs Anthony was supposed to pay were either not followed up on, waived or simply remain outstanding. The non-payments represent more wrinkles in a case Perry last week described as a "mess" and a "legal morass."

Certainly, Anthony's ability to pay these costs was hindered by her jail time and indigence, but the case again illustrates how details in the check-fraud sentencing were overlooked as all parties looked toward the murder case.

Not only was the timing of Strickland's sentence misinterpreted; the money he intended Anthony to pay — most people convicted must pay something — never flowed back to the judicial system.

Further confounding the issue is Anthony's indigence. Less than two months after Strickland sentenced her in the check-fraud case, he declared her unable to pay defense costs. That eventually led to the state paying more than $118,847 for her defense in the murder trial.

But before that Anthony did have cash. Her defense was funded privately with $200,000 she received from ABC News for her family photos and videos, $5,000 from a private donor and $70,000 from attorney Todd Macaluso, who was once part of the defense team.

Details on how that money was spent are still sealed. The Orlando Sentinel is pursuing a breakdown of that money and an outside-the-courtroom hearing conducted regarding finances related to the case.

But this much is apparent: Anthony had nearly $400,000 in private and public funding spent on her defense during a three-year period.

Yet court records show a collection agency became involved to get the $348 in court costs Anthony was supposed to have paid within 90 days of her sentencing. Collection was later canceled, according to the court docket. It noted, "Defendant was in Jail."

Attorney Jose Baez told Strickland at the sentencing the court costs would be paid. "Yes, that's fine," Baez said, "within 90 days."

The state, meanwhile, never followed up on the $5,517.75 it initially requested in the check-fraud investigation.

"If necessary, we can have a hearing on the reasonableness of the amount at a later date." Strickland said during the sentencing. "I hope the parties can work something out…"

Later, he was told there was no total amount available for prosecution costs, so Strickland said, "If the parties can't work it out, I'll set a short hearing on that later."

This week, Danielle Tavernier, spokeswoman for the State Attorney's Office said her office has no plans to collect that money now.

The State Attorney's Office is seeking reimbursement of more than $517,000 in prosecution and investigative costs related to the criminal case in which Anthony was acquitted.

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Post by Guest on Wed Aug 10, 2011 2:07 pm

Judge Perry spokeswoman Karen Levey just informed me NO Casey Anthony probation decision today. Late Thurs. or on Friday. per bob kealing
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Post by artgal16 on Wed Aug 10, 2011 2:27 pm

interesting! If he wasnt going to give it to her I think he would have decided by now. Or maybe its just wishful thinking!
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Post by laga on Wed Aug 10, 2011 2:29 pm

I am sure perry is trying to find some case law to base a decision on to force her to serve the probation. But why... the murdering slut got away with murdering her daughter, why bother to try to "punish" her for stealing a few dollars from a friend???? Sarcasm I don't know why a decision has to be based on another decision, isn't there a first time in the legal system?

If I hear one more "talking head" say the trial and verdict is an example of our great justice system at work I will scream! BS
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Post by artgal16 on Wed Aug 10, 2011 2:37 pm

The fault also was in the jury instructions - There should have been major emphasis on circumstantial evidence carrying the same weight as direct evidence that would have made a difference I think if they truly understood that.
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Post by laga on Wed Aug 10, 2011 2:52 pm

artgal16 wrote:The fault also was in the jury instructions - There should have been major emphasis on circumstantial evidence carrying the same weight as direct evidence that would have made a difference I think if they truly understood that.

The jury certainly didn't understand their duty, nor did they attempt to. Circumstantial evidence is always talked about as though it was inferior to direct. All those supposed "experts" on tv who take on the role of explaining to the "common folks" are much to blame for this misunderstanding. However, I do not think the jury's blunder can be blamed on anyone but the jury and their lack of moral integrity, their abundance of apathy and their strong desire to get the hell out of there and on to their all expense paid trip to DW.
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Post by Wrapitup on Wed Aug 10, 2011 4:25 pm

I agree with all of you.

I know this is difficult and maybe impossible but this thread is for the probation discussion only; however, it is easy to start talking about her "impending" (yea, right!) probation and segue into discussions of the "jury", etc.

The main reason I want to keep these topics separate is because one has to do with the check fraud case and all the rest have to do w/the lying, murdering slut taking her daughters life in cold blood. So, if we do start discussing the jury, let's try to take it to the other thread. Thanks In Advance!
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Post by laga on Wed Aug 10, 2011 5:20 pm

Sorry Wrap, my bad.......

On topic....I don't think perry will impose the probation but will declare that she has indeed served her probation while in jail...more comments continued on other thread.
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Post by Wrapitup on Wed Aug 10, 2011 5:42 pm

Laga, no need to apologize. It honestly was not "your bad." flower3

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Post by raine1953 on Fri Aug 12, 2011 1:22 pm

Judge in Florida orders Casey Anthony to serve probation

Orlando, Florida (CNN) -- A Florida judge ruled Friday that Casey Anthony must serve one year of supervised probation for a check-fraud conviction.
Orange County Chief Judge Belvin Perry Jr. said that Anthony has to report no later than noon August 26 but that she can report earlier.
Perry also ruled that the Florida Department of Corrections is authorized to keep her address confidential in order to safeguard her well-being.
"We have just received the order and are in the process of reviewing it," said Jo Ellyn Rackleff, spokeswoman for the corrections department. "We will then determine what is the best way to implement it. Miss Anthony has not received permission to move to another state."
Anthony was cleared this year of murder charges related to the death of her 2-year-old daughter, Caylee.
But she was convicted in January 2010 of felony check fraud charges after she admitted stealing a checkbook from her friend Amy Huizenga and writing five checks totaling $644.25.
Anthony's defense attorney, Lisabeth Fryer, argued that Anthony completed the probation while she was serving time in jail waiting for her trial on the murder charge. Prosecutors disagreed.

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Post by raine1953 on Fri Aug 12, 2011 1:48 pm

I'm shocked that the lying murderous slut was ordered back to Orlando to do a years probation!!! But I'm a very happy shocked! I really didn't think Judge Perry would find a legal way to order this but I just love this brilliant Judge!
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Post by laga on Fri Aug 12, 2011 2:49 pm

I am surprised too, wonder if it will stand....

Perry also ruled that the Florida Department of Corrections is authorized to keep her address confidential in order to safeguard her well-being.

Not that I want any harm to come to kc (:tongue in chee) but is it really an obligation to protect a convicted criminal while they serve probation...is that done in all probation cases?
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Normal Re: Casey Anthony - The Great Probation Debate/ PROBATION DISCUSSION ONLY ON THIS THREAD, PLEASE/ Casey Anthony is off probation — what's next for her?

Post by artgal16 on Fri Aug 12, 2011 3:10 pm

ORLANDO, Fla. -- Judge Belvin Perry made a decision Friday as to whether Casey Anthony will have to serve probation, saying she must serve a year of supervised probation.
A hearing was called last week after Anthony's attorneys asked Perry to strike Judge Stan Strickland's clarifying order, which stated that it was his intention for Anthony to serve one year of probation after she was released from jail.

Perry denied that defense motion Friday. He said Anthony had until noon on Aug. 26 to report for probation.

In his order, Perry cited a survey that found Anthony was the most hated person in America. Perry ruled that the Department of Corrections must keep Anthony's residential information confidential. Perry said in the order he did not want any information released that could lead to the discovery of her location.

READ: Read Perry's Decision
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"This Court is very mindful that it is a high probability that there are many that would like to see physical harm visited upon (Anthony)," Perry wrote in his order.

Anthony has to contact a Department of Corrections administrator 72 hours prior to reporting to probation.

Perry said last week he would need more time to research whether Anthony should return to Orlando to report to a probation office. This week, Perry has been busy dealing with other cases.

Anthony's attorneys called the clarifying order biased and claimed Anthony had already served the probation that she was sentenced to while she was in jail awaiting her first-degree murder trial.

The state attorney's office previously agreed that Anthony had already served the court-ordered probation, but prosecutor Frank George said last Friday that the purpose of probation is to to help offenders after they are released back into the community.

Perry said in his decision that Anthony and her defense were abundantly clear on Strickland's intentions and took advantage of a clerical error.

"It is very clear that the Defendant and her attorney knew she was to start her probation upon release from the Orange County Jail. Despite this fact, they took advantage of a scrivener's error which started the probation while she was being held in the jail pending trial," he wrote.

Perry lashes out in the order against defense attorney Jose Baez, who admitted last week he knew about the error but said he had no obligation to inform the court.

"An attorney has a duty of candor. Under this umbrella of an attorney's duty to the court, attorneys are primarily responsible for ensuring that orders of the court are followed. While ignorance of a court order is one thing, the failure to abide by that order and the failure to notify the court of a known scrivener's error in the order may be a violation of an attorney's duty of candor," Perry said.

Perry went on to say that the act "strikes at the very foundation of our justice system."

Since Anthony was released from the Orange County Jail, her whereabouts have been unknown. In July, a jury decided Anthony was not guilty of killing her 2-year-old daughter, Caylee. She was found guilty of four misdemeanor charges of lying to law enforcement officers. Anthony intends to appeal the conviction.

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Post by lisette on Fri Aug 12, 2011 3:11 pm

I am tickled pink that KC and her defense team have been reined in by JP. :cheering: It just wasn't right that she got to fly off like a celebrity and not fulfill her obligations in the sentence that she received because she pled guilty to the charges. At least this shows her that she is not "above the law" which I'm sure she was beginning to believe. Maybe this is just the beginning of her miserable life...I hope so! praying
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Post by lisette on Fri Aug 12, 2011 3:21 pm

Under the terms of the probation order, Anthony will have to report to a probation officer every month and can't change her residency without permission from the probation officer. She is prohibited from getting drunk or using drugs, is required to find a job and can't associate with known criminals. She must submit to reasonable searches in her home and at her job by her probation officer.

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Reckon she can get a job as an Event Planner? She will probably go to work in one of the lawyer's offices...Who else would ever hire her?
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Post by artgal16 on Fri Aug 12, 2011 3:23 pm

Ha! So she has to come back and Baez gets a slapdown
that ought to be an interesting day mark your calendars August 26th - they will appeal it of course - or can they?
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Post by artgal16 on Fri Aug 12, 2011 3:28 pm

ORLANDO, Fla. -- Casey Anthony must return to Orlando within two weeks to serve a year of probation for check fraud, a judge ruled Friday.
Judge Belvin Perry said that Anthony must follow an order issued by another judge and report to a probation officer in Orange County no later than Aug. 26 at noon, although she could report earlier.

READ: Judge's Order
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The other judge, Stan Strickland, had sentenced Anthony in January 2010 to one year of probation after she pleaded guilty to stealing checks from a friend. He said Anthony should serve the probation upon her release, but those instructions never made it to a written order. Corrections officials interpreted the sentence to mean Anthony could serve the probation while she was in jail awaiting her murder trial.

Strickland clarified in an order last week that Anthony needs to start serving probation now that she is out of jail. Strickland later recused himself and turned the case over to Perry, who presided over the murder trial that ended last month with Anthony's acquittal in her daughter's death.

Calling the case "a mess," Perry put the probation order on hold temporarily and heard arguments last week from Anthony's attorneys. They told the judge that she had served her probation while in jail awaiting her murder trial and requiring her to do so again would be double jeopardy. They also argued that she would be in danger if her location were known, given that she has received death threats.

Perry said he would authorize the Department of Corrections to make an exception and keep Anthony's address private during her probation. The judge also discounted the double jeopardy argument, saying Anthony was unable to meet the goals of a probationary sentence since she was in jail.

"It is clear the court stated the defendant's probation was to start once she was released from jail," Perry said in his order.

Allowing Anthony to serve probation while in jail "would take a lawfully imposed sentence and make it a mockery of justice," Perry added. "This would allow a defendant to take advantage of a scrivener's error and be rewarded. This is not the message the courts want to send to the public or defendants."

The jury's decision angered many people online and elsewhere, and threats were made against Anthony's life. A recent poll showed that Anthony is the most hated person in America.

Department of Corrections spokeswoman Gretl Plessinger said the agency had just received the order and was reviewing it.

Under the terms of the probation order, Anthony will have to report to a probation officer every month and can't change her residency without permission from the probation officer. She is prohibited from getting drunk or using drugs, is required to find a job and can't associate with known criminals. She must submit to reasonable searches in her home and at her job by her probation officer.

Anthony's current whereabouts are unknown, although media and online reports have suggested that she's been in Columbus, Ohio, and California.
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Post by artgal16 on Fri Aug 12, 2011 3:29 pm

Is she really going to have to look for work? It doesnt make sense for this one part of the probation I wonder how they will get around that.
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Post by artgal16 on Fri Aug 12, 2011 3:38 pm

Baez and/or Mason will probably "hire her" to get around the work provision.
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Post by cherylz on Fri Aug 12, 2011 6:02 pm

Well, I have to admit that I am pleasantly surprised! :cheering:
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Post by Wrapitup on Fri Aug 12, 2011 6:28 pm

I got a text message from WFTV earlier today that said Casey must return to Orlando to serve her probation. :cheering: :cheering: :cheering:

Now listening to JVM. That ridiculous Judge Seidlan is saying this is all about politics as JP is up for re-election in 2 years. What a load of crap!! This has Nothing to do w/politics. It has to do with the fact that Judge Strickland's Order was clear. She will serve probation UPON RELEASE. What part of that doesn't this judge or the defense understand? Also, I am Very Happy that JP admonished Baez because he admitted he knew she was to serve her probation AFTER release and did not follow through..thought it would fall between the cracks.

JVM is discussing that Cindy wants a relationship w/her daughter. There is NO WAY the lying slut w/return to her parents for several reasons. She doesn't want to and if she did, the public would be all over that home like white on rice.

I'm very surprised that JP ordered her back to Orlando. I figured he would follow Judge Strickland's standing Order but thought he would order it to be carried out in another county or state. We all know the media will find out where she is living in Orlando, but they w/not be allowed to release it. I DO think someone other than the media w/eventually spot her and all hell w/break loose. This is NOT going to go away with the public. She will have to work and I agree she w/work in Bozo's office. OR, will work from home (wherever that is) via his office. Everyone knows where his office is and it will be a circus. "TLS" w/have one year to Finally grow up, get a job, live in society like we do..OBEYING THE LAW. If she is found at a club getting drunk or smokes pot and has a pee test, she is toast. Back to the clink. I do NOT think she w/be able to make it thru this. She has Never taken responsibility for her life, doesn't have a clue how to do that because she is a sociopath and Will F up. MOO.

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Post by Heike on Sat Aug 13, 2011 12:50 am

I had a *gut* feeling that our buddy JP would come through on this IF he could do so within the realm of reason. Yay!

I wonder of the job issue...they may be able to argue that she needs intense therapy before being fit for employment. I doubt very much that either attorney would want her mucking up their day to day personal life in this way or if she could focus enough to do so, if they did! She is sooooo high maintenance and they are not used to having to deal with that for more than jail visits and of course whatever went on behind the scenes at trail. It is a whole other beast now.

I hope this plays out with some much needed shred of justice, somehow...things could happen that we cannot yet foresee.

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Post by jeanne1807 on Sat Aug 13, 2011 7:28 am

Judge Perry explains the laws of our land. A verbal order overrules a mistaken written order.

Jose knew this. How long can they continue to allow him to disregard and demean the laws.

Probation is probation. For one and all. Never in Florida has a probation been served while still in jail.

A mockery of our probation system has been made by Jose Baez. Shame on him.
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Post by Wrapitup on Sat Aug 13, 2011 10:37 am

Jeanne, I remember you did not think the probation would be ordered for her. Many didn't think so. I always did but was completely surprised JP is taking the chance of her demise by returning to Orange County. Looks to me like Bozo and Mason better step up to the plate and find a place for her asap. She will Never be able to work and pay her bills. She has zero clue what life in the Real World is like. This is due IMHO to her parents, in particular, Cindy, allowing her to literally get away with murder..never showing tough love and paying for everything..handing over a vehicle to her, a nice bedroom, food, etc. If only Cindy would have gotten the ball rolling from day one on adopting Caylee and kicked that immature lying murdering slut to the curb!! We can "if only" unitl the cows come home but it will never bring back our precious Caylee.

It is going to be a circus now. Peeps and media w/be camped out at the probation office awaiting her to return.

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Normal How Casey Anthony Might Protect Herself In Orlando

Post by Wrapitup on Sat Aug 13, 2011 10:31 pm

A judge has ordered that Casey Anthony must return to Orlando, FL. to serve one year’s probation for check fraud.

Despite the fact that Anthony is so reviled she recently topped E-Poll Market Research’s “Most Hated Person in America” list and that a woman in Orlando who vaguely resembles Anthony says she was attacked by three men, the judge has decided Anthony must serve out probation in her hometown.

When a criminal inside the big house has committed particularly notorious acts—usually against women or children—he or she is kept away from the other inmates, for their own protection. But a woman who was acquitted on charges of murdering her two-year-old daughter is afforded no such protection.

I’m certainly not suggesting that Orlando taxpayers pick up the tab to protect Anthony, though perhaps Nancy Grace should. (LOL!)But if Anthony does return to Orlando, she probably shouldn’t waltz around town solo in a cap and sunglasses, like she did in Ohio a couple of weeks back.

One man, who believes Anthony is innocent and describes himself as “a hacker who has been studying ‘tradecraft’ since I was eight,” says, “If Casey wants to survive, she needs to turn pro.”

The man suggests that Anthony start with a WWII disguise manual, and perhaps hire a professional CIA “disguise tech” or someone from MOSSAD who teaches surveillance/counter-surveillance.

If Anthony made any money out of her recent Ohio sojourn, she may have some spare cash for this type of thing.

The man also recommends she carry a “bug out bag/fugitive kit” and fill it with a ballistic shield capable of stopping a .44 magnum and pepper gas grenades “for breaking contact with angry crowds.”

He also suggests Anthony learn self-defense techniques, such as the Israeli martial arts system Mag Kav, which focuses on relieving enemies of weapons, or the mind/body technique Parkour, which essentially teaches you to run like hell through or around any obstacle (including walls).

“Hopefully this will give her a better chance than your average bear,” the man says.

But given that Anthony is ordered to return to Orlando by Aug. 26, it’s doubtful she’ll have time to master these particular skills. One hopes she will at least leave the bright red Ohio State baseball cap behind.

Kiri Blakeley writes about pop culture, women, and media. Follow me on Twitter.

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Normal Re: Casey Anthony - The Great Probation Debate/ PROBATION DISCUSSION ONLY ON THIS THREAD, PLEASE/ Casey Anthony is off probation — what's next for her?

Post by Heike on Sat Aug 13, 2011 11:06 pm

It is sure going to be interesting! So , the 26th...what will we see?

The Ohio spectacle remains speculation as far as I know, correct? I am still completely convinced that was a hoax.

Can we hope that she will do something to throw her a** back in jail...and then prison and then....?

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Normal George and Cindy Anthony—Casey Anthony Won't Live with Them

Post by Wrapitup on Sun Aug 14, 2011 4:01 am

August 13, 2011 11:05 PM EDT

George and Cindy Anthony don't know where their daughter Casey Anthony is, but they do know where she won't be when she returns to Orlando on August 26. She won't be living back at home with her parents.

According to People, the Anthonys' lawyer, Mark Lippman, made the following statement to the press regarding Casey Anthony and where she'll live when she returns to Florida.

"Casey Anthony will not be returning to her home," Lippman said. "George and Cindy Anthony do not have any idea where Casey Anthony currently is or where she will be living while she is on probation."

Lippman continued, telling the media that George and Cindy Anthony are still trying to recover from the excruciating pain they have suffered since learning that their granddaughter Caylee Anthony had disappeared and was subsequently found dead.

"They are really trying to move forward," he said. "They have been through a lot, and they're figuring out their next step."

It's a wonder that George and Cindy Anthony can even maneuver through each day, given the devastating loss they have experienced. It certainly seems, given that Cindy lied under oath to protect Casey during her murder trial, that they believe their daughter is guilty of their granddaughter's death. That's a very painful truth for this couple to bear.

It will be interesting to see how the public reacts when Casey Anthony is in fact returned to Orlando. She will likely be kept in a safe house the way she reportedly has been since leaving Orlando several weeks ago.

It would be uncomfortable for George and Cindy Anthony to have their daughter back at home living with them. It would raise so many questions and subject this couple to even more doubt, lies, and pain. They need to start their life over as a couple, away from the media and the painful reminders of Caylee's untimely death.

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Normal Re: Casey Anthony - The Great Probation Debate/ PROBATION DISCUSSION ONLY ON THIS THREAD, PLEASE/ Casey Anthony is off probation — what's next for her?

Post by raine1953 on Mon Aug 15, 2011 2:35 pm

CASEY ANTHONY'S LEGAL TEAM
We're Taking on the Judge
She Should NOT Be On Probation

Casey Anthony's legal team tells TMZ they will fight the judge who just rejected their claim that Casey served her probation for check fraud while she sat in jail during her murder trial ... and if they lose Casey will have to return to Florida in 11 days.

Anthony was sentenced to 1 year's probation for her 2010 check fraud conviction. The judge who sentenced her said in court the time Casey spent in jail would not count toward completing probation, but the order the judge signed mistakenly allowed Casey's probation to run concurrently with her time in the pokey.

A judge ruled on Friday that the judge who sentenced Casey clearly made an innocent mistake, and it wouldn't make sense to allow Casey to get credit for the time she was in jail. After all, the point of probation is to test how a person behaves when they are in the real world, not while they're locked up with few opportunities to misbehave.

But now her lawyers tell TMZ they will appeal Friday's ruling. If they win, it would mean Casey would get a huge break -- her probation would already be completed -- because of a technical error.

Casey's lawyers say if they lose their appeal ... they want her to serve her probation in a state other than Florida.
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