Steven Powell,Father-In-Law of Susan Cox Powell,convicted on all 14 charges of voyeurism/Breaking:The Sicko ONLY Gets 2.5 years in Prison. Released from prison on March 23, 2014.

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Normal Re: Steven Powell,Father-In-Law of Susan Cox Powell,convicted on all 14 charges of voyeurism/Breaking:The Sicko ONLY Gets 2.5 years in Prison. Released from prison on March 23, 2014.

Post by Nama on Wed Sep 28, 2011 9:47 pm

In arguing that the children should be removed from Josh Powell's custody, the state cited the child pornography found on Steven Powell's computer during the Aug. 25 search of the home and the fact that Susan Powell remains missing.

The state also cited the condition of the home on Sept. 22 when Steven Powell was arrested. When they made the arrest, police found one of Josh Powell's brothers, who is developmentally disabled, naked. The state also said a hangman's noose was found, as well as a poster on the wall with a sexually violent image of a woman with a sword.
Josh Powell responded that the hangman's noose was a rope used for weightlifting. And he said he did not believe there was a sexually violent poster in the house. He said the brother who was naked during the arrest had just gotten out of the shower and the family had not been able to attend to him as they were were caught off guard by the raid.

Police said the boys were not involved in the child pornography.

How do they know this? I thought they had only viewed 5 or 10% of the porn that was found.

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Post by Wrapitup on Wed Sep 28, 2011 9:55 pm

Josh has an alibi/excuse for everything.

And, yea BJ....how does LE know this if they have not viewed all the pictures?????

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Post by laga on Wed Sep 28, 2011 10:00 pm

I wonder if they have questioned the boys enough to know they were not knowingly involved. Maybe all the pictures they viewed so far are of females and secretly taken. ????????
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Post by artgal16 on Thu Sep 29, 2011 11:26 am

Just heard on the news that the children have been given to Susans parents temporarily but anyway that is great news!
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Post by laga on Thu Sep 29, 2011 12:38 pm

artgal16 wrote:Just heard on the news that the children have been given to Susans parents temporarily but anyway that is great news!

Great news!
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Post by Wrapitup on Thu Sep 29, 2011 1:42 pm

They got temp custody on Wed. I think it's upthread. But, YES..this is Awesome News!!

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Post by artgal16 on Thu Sep 29, 2011 1:45 pm

They had better think hard and long about giving this guy back those children even if they cant prove anything about his involvement of Susan's death or his knowledge of the porn. The case has to be made that if his estranged sister knew of the fathers porn problem Josh also knew and kept his children in a dangerous environment.
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Post by Wrapitup on Thu Sep 29, 2011 3:58 pm

I see Josh joining daddyo in the clink very, very soon. And, I see the Cox's gettinig full custody. :crystal ball:

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Post by raine1953 on Thu Sep 29, 2011 4:08 pm

It sounds like the Powell household is rapidly falling apart. I wonder how old this developmentally disabled brother is?
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Post by artgal16 on Thu Sep 29, 2011 4:11 pm

That is interesting I never heard of him before
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Post by Wrapitup on Thu Sep 29, 2011 4:40 pm

Art, it's discussed upthread.

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Post by artgal16 on Thu Sep 29, 2011 5:00 pm

I see it says Josh Powells brothers - how many brothers does he have and is this the only one that lives with them?
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Post by Nama on Thu Sep 29, 2011 5:07 pm

artgal16 wrote:I see it says Josh Powells brothers - how many brothers does he have and is this the only one that lives with them?
At this time, Josh is allegedly living with his father in Puyallup, Wash., with three of his own brothers and sisters who are all 24 and older and who do not, according to Jennifer, have jobs.

While Jennifer does not believe her brothers or sisters would bring any physical harm to her nephews, she did say the home is not an emotionally safe environment for them.

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Normal Noose/ art display??? at 2:26 on the video

Post by Nama on Thu Sep 29, 2011 7:05 pm

Susan Powell Case: Inside the Powell Family Home

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Post by cherylz on Thu Sep 29, 2011 7:56 pm

Now why would they just find a noose now? How long has it been since she went missing?
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Normal Powell children are in need of aggressive counseling to help them process not just their past but their future

Post by Nama on Thu Sep 29, 2011 8:19 pm

The Powell children have gone through a lot the past couple of years, first with the disappearance of their mother and the rapid changes that have happened just over the past week.

First, police arrested Steve Powell, the father they had been living with, on charges of voyeurism. Then their father lost custody, and now they live with grandparents they have rarely seen over the past 22 months.

One family therapist who spoke to KSL believes the boys -- ages 6 and 4 -- are confused and are likely traumatized.

As the two sons of Josh and Susan Powell move in with Chuck and Judy Cox, now their legal guardians, extended family members are expressing a sense of relief that they will be in a better environment. But for the boys, it's yet another change in their young lives.

A 4- and 6-year-old, they have no way to understand these complex emotions and what's going on with this change… Why is mom gone all of the sudden? Why am I not with dad anymore? Why haven't I seen my maternal grandparents?
–Jonathan Sherman, family therapist
"A 4- and 6-year-old, they have no way to understand these complex emotions and what's going on with this change," said Jonathan Sherman, a marriage and family therapist. "They don't know how to understand what's going on with all the complex situations and changes in their lives. Why is mom gone all of the sudden? Why am I not with dad anymore? Why haven't I seen my maternal grandparents for a couple of years?"

Sherman believes the Powell children are in need of aggressive counseling to help them process not just their past but their future.

"Are they going to be able to stay with grandma and grandpa long term or are they going to be returned to dad sometime? When this is done? And so there's a lot of back and forth," Sherman said. "Kids thrive in stability and consistency and they tend to act out and have more problems when they have instability."

Sherman says the best indication of how the boys are feeling and coping in life will come through play or art therapy.

"Kids can express a lot through play, through playing with figures, in the sandbox, action figures or dolls, because they can express a lot visually," he said. "What they can't express verbally, what they can express through actions, they can't express in words."

Sherman believes the boys are each in a stage of grief response to losing their mother and the instability of their lives, which for someone of their age is very difficult to cope with.

"So as hard as it is for adults to cope with grief and loss and huge change and traumatic experiences and death, we at least have some understanding and some choices to make," Sherman said. "Kids have very little understanding and no choices they can make."

While the Powell children are now in the custody of their maternal grandparents, Josh Powell will be allowed a three hour supervised visit every weekend. The judge will review the case again in about six weeks.

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Post by Wrapitup on Thu Sep 29, 2011 9:26 pm

Maybe that noose was used like in the demise of David Carradine. I put nothing past Steven Powell. Maybe it wasn't there in earlier searches?? What plausible reason would there be to have a noose hanging in your living room? I've never heard of anyone who "works out" using a noose. That is just eerie!! What if those boys had put their head and neck in that noose? Kids at that age (especially boys) are very adventurous.

I cannot believe Josh would feel more comfortable with his children in foster care!! That in itself speaks Volumes. If he has nothing to hide, why would he think the Cox's would turn them against him? I doubt that is where the Cox's are coming from. They know and understand that those boys have been traumatized enough. And, to think that Josh Never got those kids into some form of therapy is just despicable!! He is a control freak. He has lost complete control of His way. I think he needs to own up to what he did and talk to the FBI. This needs to end and it needs to end NOW!!

Off topic: BJ, I LOVE your "signature"!! So True!!!

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Post by Nama on Thu Sep 29, 2011 9:30 pm

by Wrapitup Today at 7:26 pm Maybe that noose was used like in the demise of David Carradine.
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Post by Wrapitup on Fri Sep 30, 2011 7:47 am

Creeptastic News of the Day
Posted on | September 29, 2011

Sitting here in my home office with the cable TV news playing in the background, I occasionally overhear summaries of stories that have nothing to do with politics, but which are nonetheless interesting as news.
The case of Utah mother Susan Powell’s disappearance has been much-discussed today. This would be just another one of those “Perils of Pauline”-type stories — the attractive white female as crime victim – were it not for the bizarre circumstances revealed by the investigation:

Josh’s father Steve was arrested over the weekend after police found evidence that he shot pictures and video of women and children in various states of undress through several acts of voyeurism.

Josh’s wife Susan Cox Powell has been missing since December 6, 2009, when she was last seen in her West Valley City, Utah home.

Susan’s husband Josh took the couple’s two young sons and moved in with his father Steve a month after Susan’s disappearance.

West Valley City Police served a search warrant at Steve Powell’s Puyallup home in August, and gathered evidence that suggests Steve was engaged in several acts of voyeurism in which he video taped or photographed women and children without their knowledge. Among the video collected by investigators was video of Susan that was shot without her knowledge.

Police say some of the video and photos were of neighbor women and girls.

Ick. The missing woman’s father-in-law was engaged in voyeurism and pornography, including child pornography, and secretly recorded video of Susan Powell. And in case that’s not creepy enough for you, take a look at this angle of the story:

Details emerged Wednesday about Steve Powell’s past in a 1992 divorce case from Spokane County. Case documents reviewed by The Associated Press show Steve Powell’s ex-wife accused him of keeping pornography, damaging his children’s respect for marriage and inappropriately discussing sex issues with the kids.

Terri Powell wrote in the divorce papers that Steve Powell talked of teaching his children about birth control methods when they were as young as 9-years-old. Terri’s sister, Becky Mulcahy, wrote in the documents that Steve Powell told her that he had shown his youngest children books about sexual intercourse when they were 6- and 8-years-old.

Terri Powell said her husband viewed people as animals and that they should be able to have sex with anyone at any time. She recalled a conversation in which Josh referred to a girl his brother, Johnny, liked. “All she is good for is her body, right Dad?” Terri recalled Josh saying. “Yeah, that’s right,” Steve Powell replied, according to the declaration.

Terri Powell also said Steve Powell kept hardcore pornography in the home and that he visited pornography shops.

Jennifer Graves, Josh Powell’s sister, said in an interview with The Associated Press that she broke off ties with her father in part because of his problems with sex and pornography. She recalled going on a business trip with her father when she was about 11-years-old and that he viewed a pornographic video while she was with him.
“Looking back, I wonder if he was willing to do that with a 10-12 year girl – his daughter – in the room, what else would he be willing to do?” she said.

Ick.
Whatever happened to Susan Powell, it appears she unwittingly married into a family badly damaged by Steve Powell, who “viewed people as animals” — hello, Darwinism! — and otherwise shared the perspective on human sexuality promoted by the disciples of Alfred Kinsey.

Perhaps “mental health professionals” will have some comment on this case. And if Steve Powell beats the rap, maybe Columbia University will hire him. Otherwise, he might become an anti-Palin blogger.

Of course, if you see this strange case as relevant to larger trends – a high-profile crime as the tip of a massive iceberg of perversion deeply embedded in our hyper-sexualized culture — then you’re probably some kind of right-wing Christian fundamentalist theocrat, and are therefore automatically discredited as a social critic.

When only secular progressive arguments are deemed admissible, when perspectives of faith and tradition are pre-emptively excluded from public discourse, we should not be surprised when the ghastly results show up on the cable TV news.

Yet those of us excluded from participation in the cultural debate must ask, if only among ourselves, how much of the human misery chronicled in the 24/7 news cycle is the product of a society that has lost sight of those once well-known moral maxims beginning, “Thou shalt not …”?

But this has no relevance to politics, of course.

UPDATE: Thanks to Pagan Temple in the comments, discovering that Susan Powell’s father-in-law Steve Powell was a singer/songwriter, using the pseudonym “Steve Chantrey,” whose Web site includes this interesting item:
[A]s an 18-year-old college student I used a campus talent show as a platform for unveiling a song I had written protesting the Vietnam War and the draft.

Also interesting is that the personal narrative on Steve Powell’s ”about” page begins by talking about the break-up of his parents’ marriage. So Steve’s parents were divorced, then Steve was divorced, and now Steve’s daughter-in-law is missing and presumed dead. Something about those “Thou shalt nots” is perhaps relevant to understanding this three-generation legacy of dysfunction, now turned deadly.

UPDATE II: An August story from the Salt Lake Tribune provides background on Steve Powell’s obsession with his daughter-in-law. Some readers may have been following this story a while, and I apologize for re-hashing what is, to you, old news. But I hadn’t been paying attention until they started featuring it in the top-of-the-hour headline updates today on Fox.

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Post by Wrapitup on Fri Sep 30, 2011 8:51 am

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Normal Who's looking out for Susan Powell's kids?

Post by Wrapitup on Fri Sep 30, 2011 11:37 am

Updated Sep 30, 2011 - 7:01 am

By Josh Kerns
97.3 KIRO FM Reporter

When a Pierce County judge ruled this week that missing Puyallup mom Susan Cox Powell's 4 and 6-year-old sons should live with Susan's parents instead of her husband Josh, she did it based on the advice of a child advocate known as a guardian ad litem or court appointed special advocate (CASA).
Susan Powell went missing two years ago, her husband, Josh, has been a person of interest in the disappearance. Last week, Josh's father, Steven, was arrested at his Puyallup home, where he lived with his son and grandsons, for child pornography.

In difficult situations like this, the person looking out for the Powell boys is usually a volunteer, because there isn't enough money, or professionals, to go around.

"So the child really has one specific person who is advocating for them, specifically they act as the eyes and the ears of the judge," says Barbara James, Executive Director of Washington State CASA.

James says cases like the Powell's are far more common than people want to believe. From sexual to drug abuse, many children often suffer serious damage, though they're often too young to realize it.

"A young 6-year-old probably has no cognitive knowledge of all the big people things that are going on like pornography and things of that sort. They may know something is amiss, but they don't know anything different."

But the Powell case is just one of approximately 19,000 child welfare cases referred to Washington courts last year. And although state law mandates a guardian ad litem or CASA be appointed to each one, the reality is the system can't handle it.

"There's not enough money to have a paid attorney for every child in the system, there's not enough money to pay for a guardian," James says.

Luckily, thousands have stepped in to fill the void. CASA volunteers undergo a thorough training and development program that consists of at least 30 hours of pre-service training, followed by 12 hours of yearly training.

According to CASA, volunteers learn about courtroom procedure from the principals in the system: judges, lawyers, social workers, court personnel and others. CASA volunteers also learn effective advocacy techniques for children, and are educated about specific topics ranging from seminars on child sexual abuse to discussions on early childhood development and adolescent behavior.

It can be difficult, especially when it gets as emotional and acrimonious as the Powell case, with the parents of Susan and Josh going at it in person and in the media.

"Certainly having all the big people involved screaming at each other is not productive and is not in the best interest of the child." But James says CASA's can avoid the drama and focus solely on the needs of the children.

While the Powell children are staying with family, most often CASA volunteers deal with kids that must be placed in foster care. According to James, a major priority is getting them into stable living situations as quickly as possible.

"These are critical years for their social, emotional development, and we know it has long lasting developmental repercussions," says James.

Despite all the sad stories, James says CASA's often help pave the way for children to lead healthy, happy lives. But even though thousands volunteer across the state and country, the need is always greater

"We have wonderful retired judges and law professionals. We have lay people like myself, fundraisers. We have moms and dads, and caring adults of every walk and economic place in life. It's really people who care about children who don't get to come home to warm safe permanent homes."

As for the Powell children, James says she's very concerned about their future given all they've been through: the loss of their mother, a move to a new home in a new state, and the recent arrest of their grandfather.

"They are in our thoughts and we hope that this all comes to a right end soon."


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Normal Detective offers support to children of Susan Cox Powell

Post by Wrapitup on Sat Oct 01, 2011 10:17 am

Published: Friday, Sept. 30, 2011 10:04 p.m. MDT
By Sarah Dallof, Deseret News

TACOMA, WASH. ‑ It has been almost two years since the children of Josh and Susan Powell have seen their mom. From the boys' perspective, it has been a confusing and anxious time.

Last week in Washington state, the children were placed in foster care after their grandfather's home — where they were living along with their father — was arrested on charges of voyeurism and possession of child pornography. Then just two days ago, they were reunited with their maternal grandparents, whom they had not seen for quite some time.

To say the least, the two little boys have been on a roller coaster emotional journey. However, one bit of consistency they have had while in Washington is Pierce County Sheriff Det. Sgt. Teresa Berg.

One look inside Berg's office and it is apparent that she is not a typical investigator. Teddy bears sit next to official certificates and paperwork.

"I feel blessed to have this position," she said. "I love my job."

Berg is lead investigator of child homicides, as well as the head of the Special Assault Unit that handles sexual assault and abuse cases. Besides investigations, Berg and her fellow detectives protect for the rights of children.

Right now, that includes the Powell boys.

"It was a pretty instant bond," Berg said. "They're wonderful kids. They're smart (and) a joy to be around."

In Sept., when helicopter video showed the kids in their backyard as police served a search warrant Aug. 25, Berg was there too. But most of her work has been behind the scenes.

She will be there for court hearings, and was there when the boys were removed from their grandfather's home. She says her team doesn't want to "just go in and remove the kids to remove them, but to go in and have cause and do this one time."

Berg began her work with the sheriff's office 25 years ago. She was the fifth female to join the department. That lead to her getting many of the cases involving kids … she was good with them and she liked it, even though the subject matter was sometimes heavy.

"For me, it's both sad to work this but it's joyful: one, because I can do something about it," Berg said. "I have the authority, so I can make kids safe if need be. And if it's too late, I can see justice for them."

When it comes to the Powell boys, Berg says she believes she is making a difference as a dedicated and empathic advocate in their corner.

"I treat them just like I would have hoped my kids would have been treated if something happens," she said.

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Post by Wrapitup on Sun Oct 02, 2011 1:14 am

Editor’s column: These days we report news as it happens

By Terry Orme
The Salt Lake Tribune

First published 7 hours ago
Updated 1 hour ago

If you were sitting in front of a computer Tuesday or Wednesday afternoon, and happened to look at [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] chances are you didn’t get much else done for the next hour or two. I know I didn’t.

I was among the 7,600 people reading Tribune social justice reporter Brooke Adams’ live coverage of the custody hearing that determined the short-term, and possibly longer-term, future of Susan and Josh Powell’s two young sons. Would they be returned to their father, whom West Valley City police have labeled a “person of interest” in the disappearance of Susan Powell? Or would they go to the home of Susan Powell’s parents, Chuck and Judy Cox? All this is fallout from events 10 days ago when the boys’ paternal grandfather, Steve Powell, was charged with voyeurism and possession of pornography.

Adams tweeted the hearings using her smartphone. A veteran of this sort of reporting, she has a finely tuned ear for the essentials and has the skill to distill information.

Her tweets on Wednesday included allegations leveled against Josh Powell by Washington assistant attorney general John Long, and Powell’s responses to the state’s positions. The reporting was immediate, and at the same time balanced and complete. It provided a dramatic, real-time experience of what was transpiring in the Tacoma, Wash., courtroom.

Over the course of four hours, Adams posted 121 tweets. They appeared on her own account, @Brooke4Trib, and were embedded in the lead story on our homepage at sltrib.com. Here’s a taste of her work, served up in 140-characters-or-less snippets:

• Long saying 15 computers taken from home and all were available to people in the home. Investigators barely scratched surface.

• Long said Josh’s brother has answered door in the nude when [law enforcement] has come by and is often naked around the door.

• Also found hangman’s noose in the home.

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Post by Wrapitup on Sun Oct 02, 2011 1:27 am

Judge: Home where Steve Powell was arrested on porn charges is unfit for his son's 2 children

ADAM LYNN; STAFF WRITER
Published: 09/28/11 7:41 pm | Updated: 09/29/11 2:42 pm

Wednesday was a brutal day in court for Josh Powell.

First, he listened as an assistant state attorney general disparaged him and his family in front of a bank of television cameras and a courtroom full of spectators.

Then, a Pierce County judge ruled Powell’s home wasn’t a fit place to raise his two young sons, at least not right now.

Finally Superior Court Judge Kathryn Nelson awarded temporary custody of the boys to the parents of Powell’s missing wife, Susan Cox Powell.

Josh Powell has feuded openly with Charles and Judith Cox since his wife disappeared in December 2009, and he strenuously objected to his boys, 4 and 6, being placed with them. The Coxes blame Powell for their daughter’s disappearance.

Both parties left court after a daylong hearing without speaking to reporters, but it was clear the ruling devastated Powell.

“I was expecting to take my sons home with me today,” he told Nelson at one point.

The judge, after hearing arguments from Powell and Assistant Attorney General John Long, decided that wasn’t in the children’s best interest.

She set a new hearing for Nov. 15 to revisit the matter.

Child Protective Services petitioned to have the boys removed from Powell’s home after sheriff’s deputies took his sons into protective custody last week. The action came after detectives arrested the boys’ paternal grandfather, Steve Powell, on suspicion of voyeurism and possession of child pornography.

Steve Powell, who shared a Puyallup-area home with his son and grandsons, pleaded not guilty Friday to 15 felonies and is jailed in lieu of $200,000 bail.

The boys were in a foster home until earlier this week, when state social workers transferred them to Charles and Judith Cox. Long argued Wednesday the boys’ stay there should be extended.

He pointed out their grandfather’s arrest and what he called bizarre artwork and other questionable items found inside their home. He said one of Josh Powell’s brothers recently displayed what could be construed as questionable behavior – coming to the door naked when deputies paid a visit.

Long then fired his crushing salvo, telling Nelson he believes Josh Powell is directly involved in Puyallup native Susan Cox Powell’s disappearance. Police have said they consider him a person of interest.

“The story that Mr. Powell went on a midnight camping trip in a snowstorm, along with the lack of cooperation with law enforcement and other parts of this investigation, certainly should lead you to believe, and leads the state to believe, that he is responsible for the disappearance,” Long said.

Powell told authorities he went camping with his sons one night and returned to their West Valley City, Utah, home to find his wife gone. The couple had been experiencing marital troubles.

“If it’s true that he is responsible for the disappearance, I think taking a mother away from her children … is probably the very worst type of abuse that you could perpetrate on children,” Long concluded. “Those children have been through hell, frankly.”

Powell, who represented himself in the dependency case, then got his turn.

He argued he didn’t know about his father’s alleged transgressions and would have turned him in had he known. The “bizarre artwork” was not hanging in a place where the boys could see it, he said. Deputies saw his brother naked because he was in the shower when they barged into his home to serve a search warrant, he said.

Powell said he’d move out of his father’s home if Nelson was concerned about the environment there. Finally, he pointed out he’s not been arrested or charged in his wife’s disappearance and that he wishes she’d be found alive.

“I did not kill my wife as has been alleged by certain individuals,” Powell said. “I love my wife. I know my wife loves my children. I want my wife back as much as anyone else could possibly want her back.”

The best thing, he said, would be to return his sons to him.

“I should be raising them,” Powell said.

If that wasn’t possible, he told Nelson, the boys should remain in foster care. Charles and Judith Cox might poison his sons against him, he argued.

Nelson said she didn’t have much choice now other than to leave the boys in the care of their maternal grandparents, and she admonished the Coxes not to disparage Powell in front of his children.

The judge said she’d take another look at placement in November after both the children and Powell get counseling.

In the meantime, Powell will get to visit his sons, with state-approved supervision, for three hours on Sunday mornings while the Coxes go to church.

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Normal What must Josh Powell do to get his sons back?

Post by Wrapitup on Sun Oct 02, 2011 1:00 pm

BY BROOKE ADAMS
The Salt Lake Tribune
First published Oct 01 2011 04:18PM
Updated Oct 1, 2011 11:24PM

With his children now in the custody of their maternal grandparents, there is only one way for Josh Powell to get them back, says one national child welfare expert: Law enforcement must clear him as a person of interest in the disappearance of his wife, Susan, and of any participation in his father’s alleged illegal activities.

“I can’t think of anything that would prompt the court to give the children back to him while that exists,” said Richard Wexler, executive director of the National Coalition for Child Protection Reform based in Alexandria, Va.

A Pierce County Superior Court judge decided Wednesday that the boys, ages 6 and 4, will remain temporarily with Chuck and Judy Cox, parents of missing Utah mom Susan Cox Powell.

The children had been living with Josh Powell, Susan’s husband, since her disappearance on Dec. 7, 2009. Police have so far named only Josh Powell as a person of interest in his wife’s case, though they say others are being considered.

The children moved with their father in January 2010 to the Puyallup, Wash., home owned by their paternal grandfather, Steve Powell.

But Steve Powell was arrested Sept. 22 on allegations of voyeurism and child pornography. Police found thousands of images of girls and women, some unclothed, after a search of the home in August. They allege Steve Powell filmed his victims without their knowledge, in some instances using a telephoto lens to peep through windows and gain a view inside their homes.

Police are now looking at who else living in the home — one of Josh Powell’s brothers and a sister also resided with Steve Powell — may have known about or participated in the alleged illegal activities.

The same night police arrested Steve Powell, they removed the two children and placed them in foster care. The Coxes, who believe Josh Powell is “directly responsible” for their daughter’s disappearance, immediately filed what’s called a third-party custody petition for the children, whom they have been able to see only sporadically over the past 21 months. That petition was stayed when the state moved the children to the Coxes’ home on Tuesday and subsequently initiated a dependency action.

Judge Kathryn J. Nelson approved the temporary placement on Wednesday, saying it was unsafe for the boys to be returned to their father given the pending law enforcement investigations and the state’s concerns about the environment in the home.

In the meantime, the judge granted Josh Powell weekly three-hour visits with his sons.

While Josh Powell said he had expected the boys to be returned to him, other child welfare and father’s rights experts said the judge’s decision was reasonable.

“The judge is going to err on the side of caution,” said Doug Clark, executive director of The National Fathers’ Resource Center in Dallas, Texas. “This is not an uncommon situation. It’s so far following the way they do things.”

Wexler said there were no good options, but the “least bad option” would have been to leave the children with Josh Powell while the investigations continue and “keep a close eye on him, which presumably law enforcement is already doing.”

Josh Powell asked the judge to return the children to him or leave them in the foster home where they were initially taken. But once the state and judge ruled that out, a kinship placement — even in an emotionally charged family dispute like this one — would be preferred, experts said.

“Although it’s a much more sensational case, kids getting caught in adult custody fights is not that unusual,” Wexler said. Both sides need to now keep their feelings about each other to themselves, he said.

Todd DeVallance, a Seattle family law attorney who has handled high-profile cases, reviewed the case file at the request of The Salt Lake Tribune and noted the placement is temporary.

“That is subject to change and could change at any time,” said DeVallance, of Tsai Law Co. A guardian ad litem, who represents the children’s interests in such cases, will “recommend where they should be ultimately placed.”

“In my professional opinion, I do think the judge did the right thing,” he said. “It is always — always — the right decision to err on side of caution and do what’s best to protect the children, subject to review.”

And “in this particular case, one would assume and most would agree with the court that it would be better for the children to be with family members than in foster care,” he said. If Josh Powell is cleared and “establishes a suitable environment for those children, there is no reason they shouldn’t be placed with that father.”

Clark said that Josh Powell’s decision to represent himself in the dependency proceeding was a “huge mistake” and one he should fix. Now, Josh Powell needs to push the court to act with “lightning speed” to evaluate his parental fitness.

“If he is a good dad, he needs to get the court to turn the spotlight back on him,” Clark said.

Josh Powell agreed last week to do whatever was necessary to get his sons back, including a psychological evaluation and a parenting competency review.

Sherry Hill, spokeswoman for the state’s Children’s Administration, said such evaluations are done “quite often” in child welfare cases and are aimed at measuring attachment bonds, ability to cope with stress and to parent effectively, as well as any propensity for violence in a home.

A statutory clock also has begun ticking. Washington, like Utah and most other states, sets a deadline for making a permanent custody decision once children are removed from their homes and parents’ care. If the case is not resolved within the next nine months, a permanency hearing must take place within 12 months.

And Wexler said that while Josh Powell should take every step necessary to meet the state’s demands and be ready for his children’s return, none of that really matters as long as police are investigating him.

“There is nothing he can do to get the kids back unless he’s found not to have been involved,” he said. “At a minimum, for him to get the children back, police will have to decide he is no longer a person of interest.”

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Post by Wrapitup on Mon Oct 03, 2011 12:09 am

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Post by raine1953 on Mon Oct 03, 2011 2:20 am

Oh I bet Josh was fuming that he had to have supervised visitation w/ the boys! Everything is crumbling around him and his daddy. They've lost control and it's their own damn fault. I so respect LE, every agency involved for the awesome job they are doing and have dedicated themselves to do.
This will be interesting when Josh receives the letter taking him up on his public statement to meet w/ the FBI on his terms. Talk about calling someone's bluff!
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Post by laga on Mon Oct 03, 2011 1:11 pm

If the truth of what happened that night when Susan disappeared, is what I have recently come to believe, LE may be able to get the truth from josh with his father now in jail.
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Normal Statement from Chuck Cox's sister released in custody case

Post by Nama on Mon Oct 03, 2011 6:50 pm

Susan Powell's two sons were very upset when they were told during a visit at the home of Chuck Cox last year that it was time to go.

"He didn't want to let go of my arm. I had to physically pick him up and set him on the couch," Susan's aunt Pam Cox said in a statement filed in court.

The information was revealed in new documents from last week's shelter care dependency hearing involving the children of Susan Cox Powell that have been made public.

Last week, a Pierce County Court judge ruled it was not safe for the two sons of Josh and Susan Powell, ages 4 and 6, to currently stay in Josh Powell's Washington home and placed the boys in the temporary custody of Chuck and Judy Cox, the boys' maternal grandparents.

During the hearing, the Washington state Children's Administration said it believed Josh Powell was responsible for his wife's disappearance, a sentiment shared by the Cox family.

Susan Cox Powell has been missing since December 2009. Although Josh Powell has been named a person of interest in the case by West Valley police, he has not been called a suspect or charged with a crime. Powell has denied having any involvement with his wife's disappearance.

Pam Cox, Chuck Cox's sister, was in the courtroom during the hearing in Tacoma, Wash.

In a statement presented to the court that was just recently made public, Pam Cox recalled an incident in March 2010 when she was at the Cox house where the two boys were visiting.

While looking at a book with the boys, there was a picture of a woman in a swimsuit who was swimming, according to court documents. One of the boys pointed to the woman's chest and said, "Mommy and (owie)."

The incident was also told to the judge by the Coxes' attorney in court during the dependency hearing.

When it was time to leave the Cox home, the boy, still sitting on Pam Cox's lap, clutched her arm "really tight and started to cry," she said in her statement.

When the other boy, who had been making crafts on the kitchen table heard they were leaving, "he started scrabbling out very aggressively the pictures he made us. He then proceeded to rip them up into little pieces and cry," according to Cox's statement in court documents.

For months, Josh Powell wouldn't allow his boys to visit the Coxes and he asked for a restraining order to prevent contact.

Part of the judge's ruling last week also called for counseling for the boys, a psychological evaluation for Josh Powell and allowed him to have supervised visitation with his sons on Sundays for three hours.

Steven Powell, Josh's father, who was living with Josh in his house, faces charges of voyeurism and possession of child pornography and remained in the Pierce County Jail Monday.

The state claimed during the custody hearing that Josh Powell was also the subject of a pornography investigation. Powell denied the charges and said his computers did not have any child porn on them.

The next court hearing on the custody matter was scheduled for Nov. 15.

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Normal Josh Powell’s mom: ‘Josh is a loving and very engaged father’

Post by Nama on Wed Oct 05, 2011 7:51 pm

The mother of Josh Powell has broken her silence, calling her son a "loving and very engaged father" as a custody dispute over his two young sons continues to play out in the Washington legal system.

In a declaration filed recently in Pierce County Superior Court in Tacoma, Wash., Terrica Powell called her grandsons Charlie, 6, and Braden, 4, "happy, well-adjusted and vibrant children ... even though they miss their mother."

The court document is the first time Terrica Powell, 56, has commented about her son in a public venue since the December 2009 disappearance of his wife, Susan, from the couple’s West Valley City home. Josh Powell, the only person of interest police have publicly named in his wife’s case, is fighting to regain custody of his boys and clear his name following the arrest of his father, Steve Powell, on voyeurism and child pornography charges.

"Josh has long maintained a tradition of frequent activities with the kids, such as going to the zoo, or to the park to feed the ducks, or to the museum, or to Lowe’s for the little building projects they offer for kids," Terrica Powell wrote. "In addition, I have been impressed with the extra level of care Josh takes in teaching his little boys about how things work, such as when he built a new deck for their home: He delightedly let the boys be involved in a way and at a level that was interesting and safe for them. Other examples include studying animals or learning about science together.

"I have been relieved and pleased to note how very well Charlie and Braden are doing, despite the trauma and sadness of missing their beloved mother. They seem to be continuing to thrive."

Judge Kathryn J. Nelson approved the Washington Child Protective Services temporary placement of Charlie and Braden with their maternal grandparents, Chuck and Judy Cox, last week. Nelson ruled it was unsafe for the boys to live with their father because investigators are probing whether Josh Powell is connected to his wife’s disappearance or was possibly involved in illicit pornography with his father.

Charlie and Braden Powell moved with their father in January 2010 to Puyallup, Wash., where they resided at Steve Powell’s home.

Steve Powell was arrested Sept. 22, after police found thousands of images of girls and women, some unclothed, during a search of the home in August. They allege Steve Powell filmed his victims without their knowledge, in some instances using a telephoto lens to peep through a neighbor’s windows.

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Post by artgal16 on Wed Oct 05, 2011 7:55 pm

It would have been nice if Mrs Powell had made mention of her ex-husbands proclivities for porn. If their daughter knew it - she must have known it as well
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Post by Nama on Wed Oct 05, 2011 8:32 pm

artgal16 wrote:It would have been nice if Mrs Powell had made mention of her ex-husbands proclivities for porn. If their daughter knew it - she must have known it as well
The Mrs made mention of the porn in her divorce from Steven. From what I've read Josh's mother and his sister Jennifer Graves both live in Utah. Since Jennifer has been so vocal about her suspicion that Josh is somehow involved in Susan's disappearance and now her mother seems to be coming to Josh's defense I wonder what this is going to do to their relationship? What a mess this family is! I wonder if Josh and his siblings are still living in Steven's house and who is paying the bills?

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Post by laga on Wed Oct 05, 2011 8:34 pm

artgal16 wrote:It would have been nice if Mrs Powell had made mention of her ex-husbands proclivities for porn. If their daughter knew it - she must have known it as well

I guess she thought it was okay that the boys were in that home in that environment, afterall, their father shows them how things work and teaches them about animals.... :tongue in chee

First, I would like to know how she knows how josh is with the boys, not first hand knowledge I assume since she didn't live there.
Second, the actions she described does not mention anything about love, concern and caring, nothing about helping the boys understand where their mother is and why she is not with them. angry
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Post by artgal16 on Wed Oct 05, 2011 9:43 pm

Shes as bad as her ex and Josh. She must have known what he ex was - she divorced him - I hope those children can stay with the Cox family.
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Post by laga on Wed Oct 05, 2011 10:01 pm

artgal16 wrote:Shes as bad as her ex and Josh. She must have known what he ex was - she divorced him - I hope those children can stay with the Cox family.

I haven't heard that she did everything/anything to assure her grandchildren were in a safe environment, knowing what she knew about her ex. And now that they are in a safe home, she comes out supporting josh's bid to get them back in his custody. crap

I think you are right Artgal!
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Normal Family speak out in support, opposition of Josh Powell

Post by Nama on Thu Oct 06, 2011 10:36 pm

The custody battle for the two sons of Josh and Susan Powell is heating up as Josh's mother and brothers speak up for the first time and Susan's parents reveal more on their daughter's marriage and disappearance.

More than one hundred pages of affidavits from both sides of the battle have been submitted. Josh's mother praises her son, his sister question's their mother's knowledge, and his in-laws describe a distant and at times threatening husband.

"In August 2008, I happened to be in Salt Lake City for my employment and had an opportunity to spend time with my daughter alone. I attended one of her counseling sessions that were being paid for by the church. The counselor confirmed that Susan was being abused emotionally and verbally. It was at that time that I was able to convince Susan to open her own bank account," said Chuck Cox in his statement. "Mr. Powell had always threatened to divorce Susan if she ever obtained her own account."

Josh Powell did not defend his father Steven in his recent child pornography arrest.

"The recent chain of events within our family household was totally unexpected despite what the media has represented. There was no visible sign of threat to my sons. Nevertheless, I have taken and will continue to take every step possible to mitigate any future potential threat to the well-being of my sons," Josh said in a statement.

Josh also spoke of the emotional situation his family has faced in the two years since his wife's Dec. 2009 disappearance. He says that much of the media attention surrounding the case has been inaccurate.

"For almost two years now, our family and the Cox family have been involved in a very complicated and dynamic situation, which is highly emotional. There is media surrounding family and much of it is inaccurate and one-sided," said Josh.

Josh's sister Alina, who helped her care for the two boys, defends Josh as a father.

"After December 2009, though Josh's heart was aching he found strength to persevere through his boys' need for him. He continued pursuing the same activities the boys had come to know and love, as much as possible," Alina's declaration said.

Terri Powell, Josh's mother, whose presence in the media has been limited since Susan's disappearance, wrote in support of her son.

"In my experience, Josh is a loving and very engaged father in the care of his sons, and Charlie and Braden are happy, well-adjusted and vibrant children, even though they miss their mother," Terri wrote.

However, Jennifer Graves, Josh's estranged sister who lives with Terri, said in a statement to the media that her mother's understanding of the situation is limited.

"Understand that those opinions are based on her interaction with Josh and the boys nearly 2 years ago as she hasn't seen any of them since Josh moved to Washington a month after Susan's disappearance," Graves said.

The two boys remain with their maternal grandparents Chuck and Judy Cox after a Washington judge denied custody to Josh Powell amid the investigation of Steve Powell and the continued investigation into Susan's disappearance.

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Post by raine1953 on Tue Oct 11, 2011 11:16 am

Steve Powell hires attorney in his voyeurism case

The father-in-law of missing West Valley City mother Susan Powell has hired a private attorney to represent him in the voyeurism and pornography case against him.
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Post by raine1953 on Tue Oct 11, 2011 11:18 am

Steven Powell to appear in court for voyeurism, child porn charges

TACOMA, Wash. —
The father-in-law of missing West Valley City woman Susan Cox Powell is set to appear Tuesday morning in a Washington state courtroom.
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Post by raine1953 on Tue Oct 11, 2011 3:13 pm

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Post by raine1953 on Tue Oct 11, 2011 3:14 pm

Judge hearing details in Steven Powell case

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Post by raine1953 on Tue Oct 11, 2011 3:21 pm

Josh filed an amendment to his restraining order against the Cox's, I can't copy it but go to the link to see: [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]
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Normal Josh filed an amendment to his restraining order against the Cox's

Post by Nama on Tue Oct 11, 2011 4:02 pm

raine1953 wrote:Josh filed an amendment to his restraining order against the Cox's, I can't copy it but go to the link to see: [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]

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Normal Steven Powell voyeurism jury trial set for Nov. 16

Post by Nama on Tue Oct 11, 2011 5:53 pm

A Nov. 16 jury trial has been scheduled for the father-in-law of Susan Cox Powell, the West Valley mother who has been missing for nearly two years.

Steven Powell is facing charges of possession of child pornography and 14 counts of voyeurism. He was arrested Sept. 22 after police say they found photos of young neighbor children in their own bathroom that Powell had allegedly taken with a telephoto lens without their knowledge.

Days after his arrest, Judge Kathryn Nelson ordered that Susan and Josh Powell's two boys be removed from the home where they were living with their father and grandfather, Steven Powell. She said there was a "serious threat of substantial harm" if the Powell boys, ages 4 and 6, were allowed to return to the home of Josh and Steven Powell. She said she "cannot return the children home at this time to the father" and sent the two boys to live with their maternal grandparents, Chuck and Judy Cox, at least for several weeks.

Another court hearing on that matter is scheduled for Nov. 15.

Meanwhile, a restraining order previously filed against Chuck Cox by Josh Powell has been amended.

Earlier this year, Josh Powell filed a restraining order against his father-in-law claiming that Cox was threatening him. In August, a judge denied the petition saying nothing in it rose to the level of domestic violence.

The judge did, however, issue an anti-harassment order "to keep the peace," telling both sides to stay at least 500 feet away from each other.

According to court documents, Josh Powell has asked that the 500 feet order be re-continued "after placement of minor children terminates." Because the initial order prohibited Cox from coming within 500 feet of the school of one of Josh Powell's sons, the restraining order had to be amended after the Cox family was awarded temporary custody of their grandchildren so they could take him to school.

Also filed in court this week were certificates showing that Chuck and Judy Cox completed a seminar on the "Impact of Divorce on Children" in January 2010 in Washington.

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Post by laga on Tue Oct 11, 2011 7:09 pm

According to court documents, Josh Powell has asked that the 500 feet order be re-continued "after placement of minor children terminates." Because the initial order prohibited Cox from coming within 500 feet of the school of one of Josh Powell's sons, the restraining order had to be amended after the Cox family was awarded temporary custody of their grandchildren so they could take him to school.

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Post by Wrapitup on Thu Oct 13, 2011 9:30 am

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Post by Wrapitup on Thu Oct 13, 2011 9:32 am

Attorney for Steve Powell makes appearance in voyeurism case

By melinda Rogers
The Salt Lake Tribune
First published Oct 11 2011 07:27AM
Updated Oct 12, 2011 12:07PM

Note: This story corrects an earlier version that incorrectly identified Mark Quigley as a private attorney.

The father-in-law of missing West Valley City mother Susan Powell now has an attorney to represent him in the voyeurism and pornography case against him.

Documents filed in Pierce County Superior Court in Tacoma, Wash., show Steve Powell will be represented by Tacoma attorney Mark T. Quigley. Quigley, an attorney with the Pierce County Department of Assigned Counsel, appeared in court Tuesday, where the next court date was scheduled for Oct. 27. A Nov. 16 trial date was set.

Steve Powell, 61, was not scheduled to appear in court in person because the nature of the hearing was to set future court dates for the case, the Pierce County Prosecutor’s Office said.

Steve Powell is charged with 14 counts of voyeurism and one count of possessing an image of minors engaged in sexually explicit conduct.

Powell, who has pleaded not guilty to the charges against him, is being held in the Pierce County jail on a $200,000 cash or bond bail. Michael R. Kawamura of the Pierce County Dept. of Assigned Counsel represented Powell during his initial court appearance.

Prosecutor Grant Blinn said during a court hearing last month that Powell took images over a 10-year span, with the court case focusing on voyeurism episodes from 2006 and 2007.

Sheriff’s deputies from Tacoma, Wash., arrested Powell on Sept. 22 after detectives from West Valley City served a search warrant on his Puyallup home, which he shared with his son, Josh; his grandsons; and his adult children Alina Powell and John Powell. Detectives were looking for potential evidence in the case of Susan Powell and found images of the woman taken surreptitiously by Steve Powell, prosecutors have alleged.
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Steve Powell has said his daughter-in-law made sexual advances toward him — allegations disputed by Susan Powell’s friends and family. Powell made national television appearances where he stated that he had romantic feelings for his daughter-in-law and that he wished their relationship had been more intimate than it was.

Susan Powell had reportedly told her husband’s sister, Jennifer Graves of West Jordan, that Steve Powell made her uncomfortable and sent her inappropriate nude photos of men in a package containing photos of her favorite movie star. Graves has said her sister-in-law also said that Steve Powell made remarks about Susan Powell "sharing" herself with him and his son.

Susan Powell disappeared from her home in West Valley City on Dec. 6, 2009. Josh Powell has been the only publicly named person of interest in the case, although West Valley City police also have said there are other persons of interest in the case who have not been publicly named.

Steve Powell has declined jailhouse interview requests from The Salt Lake Tribune. He is currently in the county’s main jail and, with the exception of his attorney, is allowed to meet with visitors for only one hour a week.

Ed Troyer, a spokesman for the Pierce County Sheriff’s Office, said at the time Powell was charged that Pierce County investigators had reviewed only 5 to 10 percent of the computers, photographs and videos seized from Powell’s home on Aug. 25.

Troyer said on Oct. 10 that police are continuing to sift through evidence and that more charges against Powell are possible.

"We have not brought anything else forward to the prosecutor’s office yet. We are continuing to work on it," Troyer said.

Meanwhile, a custody dispute continues in Washington’s juvenile court system over Powell’s two grandsons, Charlie, 6, and Braden, 4. The boys were taken and placed in the custody of their maternal grandparents following Powell’s arrest. A judge allowed the boys to be placed with Susan Powell’s parents, Chuck and Judy Cox, while Josh Powell continues to be investigated to determine if he had any involvement in voyeurism and illicit pornography with his father.

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Post by Wrapitup on Thu Oct 13, 2011 9:40 am

Father-in-law of missing mom faces trial
Published: Oct. 11, 2011 at 6:26 PM

TACOMA, Wash., Oct. 11 (UPI) -- The father-in-law of a missing Utah woman is to go on trial next month in Tacoma, Wash., on a voyeurism charge.

Steven Powell was arrested last month after Utah detectives investigating Susan Powell's disappearance searched his house. The detectives said they found photographs Powell had taken of neighbors' children in their own bathroom using a telephoto lens.

Powell appeared in court Tuesday for a status conference, the Deseret News of Salt Lake City reported. A judge scheduled the trial for Nov. 16.

Powell's son, Josh, who had been living in West Valley City, Utah, with his wife and their two children, returned home to Washington after his wife disappeared. Josh Powell told investigators he took his sons, now ages 4 and 6, on a short winter camping trip and found his wife gone when he returned.

Since their grandfather's arrest, the boys have been living with Susan Powell's parents in Washington. A hearing has been scheduled on their custody Nov. 15.

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Post by laga on Thu Oct 13, 2011 4:42 pm

I know it is not possible to prove a negative but I think the court should impose that task on josh in his petition of have the boys returned. He should have to prove he was not involved in the activities of his father, prove he did not know about those activities, prove the boys were not exposed in ANY way to harmful activities his father has been charged with.

I can not see the court returning the boys to his custody. praying
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Normal Enquiring minds want to know!

Post by Nama on Fri Oct 14, 2011 9:30 pm

What a class act! NOT!

WAS missing woman SUSAN POWELL abducted by her “creepy” father-in-law STEVEN?

Although Steven Powell, 61, is not considered a person of interest and has not been named a suspect in her disappearance, that’s the outrageous question being raised by onlookers in the pretty Utah mom’s baffling disappearance, a case that has held America spellbound for two years.
Her devoted friend Kiirsi Hallewell has told cops that Steven, 61, the father of Susan’s husband Josh, was freakishly fascinated with his daughter-in-law – and Kiirsi theorizes about whether he may be responsible for making her vanish because of “a lot of things that aren’t public knowledge yet.

“One of those things was Steve’s obsession with Susan,” Kiirsi said in an interview.

“Steve’s actions are very suspicious. That’s why I said in the beginning I did not know if she was dead or was kidnapped.”

Police recently raided Steven’s home and arrested him on voyeurism and child pornography possession charges. They reportedly seized evidence suggesting Steven may have been fixated for over ten years on Susan, 28, who called him “the devil on earth.”

Attorney Anne Bremner, who represents Susan’s anguished parents, admitted she’s worried that Susan may be “held somewhere by Steve Powell because he wanted to share her with Josh.”

Susan’s husband, Josh, became a ”person of interest” when he told law enforcement authorities a far-fetched tale about the pretty stockbroker’s disappearance from their West Valley City, Utah, home Dec. 7, 2009.

Josh, 35, claimed Susan was asleep when he took their young sons – Charlie, then 4, and Braden, 2 – on a spur-of-the-moment Sunday night camping trip in sub-freezing conditions of a snowy wilderness, even though he was due at his computer programming job the next day.

Refusing to reveal where he and the boys had camped in the freezing rain, Josh remains uncooperative, officers said.

Susan’s body has never been found. Lawmen focused their search on Topaz Mountain, near Delta, Utah, about 30 miles from where Josh said he’d gone camping. Police cadaver dogs kept hitting on a grave type spot where they found charred wood, which has been sent to a forensic lab for DNA analysis.

Susan’s devastated parents Chuck and Judy Cox who have won custody of their grandsons from Josh – who they are publicly accusing of foul play.

“Whether our daughter is being held against her will somewhere or whether she is dead, we both believe the husband, Josh Powell, is directly responsible for her disappearance,” Chuck and Judy stated in explosive court papers.

Josh insists, “I did not kill my wife. I have never abused her.”

During the court hearing, it was revealed Josh was also probed in the child porn possession investigation.

On Sept. 22, Steven Powell was arrested on one count of possessing child porn and 14 felony voyeurism charges. Officials say he took photos of a neighbor’s naked young kids having baths and using the toilet. Cops say other twisted videos and images taken in public places reportedly focus on breasts and butts of girls as young as age 8.

And they found graphic shots of Steven’s private parts and of him engaged in a sordid sex act. Investigators claim the thousands of photos and videos also included many of Susan, who was unaware they were being taken.

Meanwhile, friends are now revealing for the first time that Susan was afraid to be left alone with her father-in-law.

Sources say she’d complained she’d caught Steven trying to watch her undress, kiss her and trying to put his hand up her skirt and shirt.

Steven’s daughter Jennifer Graves reveals Susan told her she had a “disturbing encounter” while alone in a car with Steven.

“My dad proposed to Susan that he and Josh ‘share’ her,” says Graves. “Susan was very upset.”

And Kiirsi said Susan once told her that Steven wanted to break up her marriage with Josh because “he wants me for himself.”

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Post by HippyChick2 on Sat Oct 15, 2011 6:50 am

Can this freak GET any creepier? Man, every news release I read grosses me out more and more. Poor Susan. I would have scooped those boys up and ran away YEARS ago!! Why did she stay- did she love disgusting Josh that much? If so, Love is definately blind.
Now I am all skeeved out and have to try to eat breakfast. {{shivver}}
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