Lisa Irwin, still missing in Kansas City, MO

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Normal Re: Lisa Irwin, still missing in Kansas City, MO

Post by Slys Hunny on Mon Oct 10, 2011 11:40 am

Thanks for saying that Laga. I learned this when I had my father cremated but couldnt think of a good way to say the grinding thing.

I dont see any way it could be trying to get rid of a body burning it in a dumpster. I was thinking maybe her clothing.

It was stated on our morning news that there is a handy man from the neighborhood who hasnt been seen since the day before Lisa came up missing. Im hoping this is a good lead but I wish they would give a name and description of this man. Im only 2 hours away and could possibly see something.

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Normal Re: Lisa Irwin, still missing in Kansas City, MO

Post by artgal16 on Mon Oct 10, 2011 11:49 am

I saw the police trying to do a reenactment on TV this morning - you would need a small step stool or boost to get in the window and it wasnt directly into Lisa's room. Also they had a dog, a black lab she said slept on the deck outside - the dog should have barked!
She is engaged to this man she lives with but is not divorced. She also seems to be able to turn on the tears and then immediately stop cring immediately, I found that disconcerting. Also Cliff Van Zandt pointed out today - Lisa is 10 months old she is not an infant - there are cases of someone stealing an infant but she is a toddler
and its a lot more rare for a child that age to be taken in this manner. The whole thing stinks!
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Normal Re: Lisa Irwin, still missing in Kansas City, MO

Post by janie on Mon Oct 10, 2011 11:59 am

Slys Hunny wrote:Thanks for saying that Laga. I learned this when I had my father cremated but couldnt think of a good way to say the grinding thing.

I dont see any way it could be trying to get rid of a body burning it in a dumpster. I was thinking maybe her clothing.

It was stated on our morning news that there is a handy man from the neighborhood who hasnt been seen since the day before Lisa came up missing. Im hoping this is a good lead but I wish they would give a name and description of this man. Im only 2 hours away and could possibly see something.
I saw that this morning on the Today show. I don't understand why LE hasn't given the name or description of the handy man? Especially if they want to talk to him or consider him a POI.
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Normal Re: Lisa Irwin, still missing in Kansas City, MO

Post by artgal16 on Mon Oct 10, 2011 12:07 pm

If you are only two hours away you get a lot of local news - they havent given any description?
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Normal Re: Lisa Irwin, still missing in Kansas City, MO

Post by Wrapitup on Mon Oct 10, 2011 1:41 pm

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Normal Re: Lisa Irwin, still missing in Kansas City, MO

Post by Wrapitup on Mon Oct 10, 2011 1:42 pm

Sly said:
It was stated on our morning news that there is a handy man from the neighborhood who hasnt been seen since the day before Lisa came up missing.
Sly, what is that news station???? TIA!!!

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Normal Re: Lisa Irwin, still missing in Kansas City, MO

Post by Slys Hunny on Mon Oct 10, 2011 1:44 pm

No artgirl they havent given any description of him. All I know is that this man hasnt been seen since the day before she went missing and LE wants to talk to him. There is something on the local news and on the news briefs about the case everyday but they really dont say anything new. I actually learn more on the national news.

I know saturday when I drove by the landfill LE were everywhere. They must have a good reason for searching it as well as they seem to be. From the highway I could see id say close to 20 or more people walking through the trash and there were Police cars all over the place. Looked like they also had a couple of loaders and bobcats moving rubbish around. My girlfriend that was with me thought she saw dogs also but I personally didnt see any,but I was also doing the driving.
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Normal Anyone know about the kitten?

Post by pickwick2011 on Mon Oct 10, 2011 6:02 pm

Did mom say there was a kitten in bed with her and her son that they had found that day? I heard that once and it wasn't mentioned again. I've had kittens, and can't really imagine getting much sleep with a brand new kitten in bed. Just wondering about this.

The analysis on here is just amazing. I've found so much of it interesting and you all have noticed things I had not. One thing, though. Someone (brilliant) suggested that it was a sign of deceit if someone said an object was 'sitting' somewhere, as objects do not sit. I wonder about that. I would have said that my soda was 'sitting' on the table beside me. Perhaps the idea that using 'sitting' to describe inanimate objects tied to deception might be tied to the fact that not many of us are interrogated about our soda, keys, aspirin, remote controls, etc. The writer tied the use to deception by referencing drugs and lying. Anyone else besides me who isn't lying to anyone (but using impossibly poor grammar) by saying that the remote control is sitting over there on the table? Just wondering. Otherwise, it was impressive. There was so much I had not noticed that didn't sound quite right, but I could not have pointed to it as this person did.

Another thing: I've read conflicting accounts of the window. Someone said it was in the back office/ alternate living room that the window was broken. Then I read it was the baby's room. Then it was the office/ living room again. I don't know what to think.

I've also read the the boys are the biological children of the mom and that no...they are the bios of the dad. Does anyone know exactly who is the bio of which children?

Someone on another site has mentioned that dad's truck was broken into a couple of months ago. People are wondering about the bio mom of the boys. Again, I thought it was this mom.

Also, there must be a leak somewhere in the police (intentional or not) about this text or phone call made around 2 am. (from the mom's brother, apparently).

The thing that is really odd to me is that if my husband was working late shift for the first time, I would be far less likely to sleep until he came home--especially so deeply that windows could break and a baby could be taken. And to do that with a kid sleeping (and they kick as moms know) and a stray kitten. It's just amazing. And to decide at that very time to re-do your cell phones. Wouldn't you sleep with one beside you at night? Or at least that first night? And wouldn't any woman lock the door that night? Especially if the neighborhood had an oddball homeless guy that neighbors saw and interacted with (and found downright creepy) AND your husband had his truck broken into in front of the house a couple of months before? Her choices that night were so strange. I'm not saying she's guilty, but she did a lot of things I wouldn't have done.

I wonder if the Anthony case will 'teach' guilty parents (not saying these two are guilty) not to say a word. The one thing Anthony lacked was a conscience, so she could sit and lie for hours without these verbal trip-ups. I guess lacking a feeling of remorse was a boon for her. Will other parents see that she could be so guilty (of knowing her child was dead and putting her into a garbage bag and tossing her into the woods) and still got off because she kept her mouth shut, forcing the state to prove everything?

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Normal Re: Lisa Irwin, still missing in Kansas City, MO

Post by artgal16 on Mon Oct 10, 2011 6:16 pm

I believe that the two boys are her children with another an or possibly two men - one child that I saw an image of looked mixed-race but I couldnt tell for sure. I have heard nothing about the kitten but I did hear that they had a black lab that slept on the back deck. Very odd to me is that there are no divisions between the houses, but coming from California where everyones yard is fenced maybe why it seems odd to me. Do they tie the dog up in the back I wonder. Its possible she forgot to lock the front door I guess but if the person who took the baby came through the window Im assuming the unlocked door is because they went out that way and left it unlocked?
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Normal Re: Lisa Irwin, still missing in Kansas City, MO

Post by Nama on Mon Oct 10, 2011 6:54 pm

by artgal16 Today at 4:16 pm I believe that the two boys are her children with another man or possibly two.
Deborah Bradley, who repeatedly presented herself in the media as Jeremy Irwin's fiancée, is legally married to another man, the Daily Mail reported Monday. Her husband is Sean Bradley, and the couple has a 6-year-old son together. That son is one of the two boys living with Bradley and Irwin. The other is Irwin's son from a prior marriage. Sean Bradley's family reportedly told reporters for Kansas City's Fox 4 that Sean and Deborah have been separated four years but did not divorce because of the cost. They also said she is a good person and they don't believe she would harm her baby.

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Normal Missing Baby Lisa Irwin Case: One Week In

Post by Nama on Mon Oct 10, 2011 7:01 pm

It was a week ago tonight that Kansas City, Mo. baby Lisa Irwin disappeared from her crib. The search for her has been hampered by a lack of specific leads and at one point friction between her parents, Jeremy Irwin and Deborah Bradley, and police. Irwin and Bradley reported that Bradley put the baby to bed about 10:30 p.m., and that Irwin returned home from his night shift at about 4:00 a.m. to find the front door open, lights on, and the baby missing from her crib. The couple's three cell phones were also taken from the home, they said.

These are the latest developments in the case:

* Police acknowledge that Lisa's parents, Deborah Bradley and Jeremy Irwin, are now cooperating with them. On Thursday, police said the couple stopped cooperating with them but Irwin and Bradley said they were taking a break.

* Police have been questioning neighbors about a local handyman who hasn't been seen since baby Lisa disappeared.

* In a re-enactment of a how a possible kidnapping could have occurred on Sunday, detectives climbed through the window of the Irwin-Bradley home. The window was one the couple said had been tampered with the night their baby disappeared. The police re-enactment, which involved more than a half-dozen efforts to climb in the window, showed that that climbing in the window would have been awkward and probably noisy.

* Jeremy Irwin's sister Ashley and friends of the family handed out copies of the Lisa Irwin missing persons flyer at the Kansas Speedway Sunday.

* Bradley and Irwin are setting up a trust fund to take donations for a reward for information leading to the return of their daughter.

* The Kansas City Crime Stoppers TIPS hotline says it generated at least 148 of the 250 tips given to police in the case. The hotline has generated leads that helped law enforcement solve 10,000 cases in its 29-year history, with number 10,000 occurring last week.

* Kansas City's Northland neighborhood residents held a vigil Sunday night to pray for Lisa Irwin's safe return.

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Normal Re: Lisa Irwin, still missing in Kansas City, MO

Post by Slys Hunny on Mon Oct 10, 2011 7:05 pm

EricKCTV5 Eric Chaloux

A grand jury will hear evidence in #LisaIrwin case.KCTV5 asked to provide interviews and video. twitpic.com/6yir5i

37 seconds ago
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Normal Re: Lisa Irwin, still missing in Kansas City, MO

Post by Nama on Mon Oct 10, 2011 7:11 pm

Early Monday evening NBC Action News received a grand jury subpoena in relation to the search for 10-month-old Lisa Irwin search.
The Clay County Prosecutor's Office is asking for specific footage.
The office has requested any raw video of any interviews given by family, friends of family and neighbors regarding the missing girl.
Baby Lisa went missing a week ago from her crib sometime between the hours of 10:30 p.m. last Monday and 4 a.m. Tuesday morning.

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Normal Re: Lisa Irwin, still missing in Kansas City, MO

Post by Nama on Mon Oct 10, 2011 7:14 pm

A few hours after neighborhood kids left stuffed animals outside Lisa Irwin’s house on Monday, investigators returned to the home to search the backyard.

It was unclear what they were looking to find.

They also spent part of the afternoon inside a next-door neighbor’s house.

Also Monday, reports surfaced of a homeless man seen in the area in the weeks leading up to the possible kidnapping of the 10-month-old Irwin from her Kansas City, North home in the 3600 block of North Lister Avenue.

Norval C. Nichols, who lives about a block from Lisa’s home, said that police showed him a photograph last week of the homeless man and asked about any possible connection to the missing child. Nichols described the homeless man as being in his 20s, with brownish blond hair and a clean appearance. The man once was seen in the neighborhood riding a red bicycle, he said.

Nichols said he also saw the man about a week or two before Lisa was reported missing but not afterward. The two men spoke briefly at a nearby park weeks ago. The man told Nichols that he was looking for a job or any handy jobs in the neighborhood.

“He made me feel real uncomfortable,” Nichols said. “Something was not right, so I eased off from him.”

Nichols said he recognized the man when police showed him the photograph.

Capt. Steve Young, a police spokesman, said there were no major new developments in the case.

“We continue to track down leads and tips,” Young said. “Any interesting ideas that detectives think to try, we are probably going to try it.”

Lisa was reported missing Tuesday morning, after her father, an electrician, returned home from work about 4 a.m. and discovered she was gone from her bedroom.

Her mother, Deborah Bradley, last saw Lisa at 10:30 p.m. Monday sleeping in her crib.

Police soon launched a massive search and interviewed her parents. The FBI also has assisted Kansas City police, as have numerous other law enforcement agencies.

On Monday afternoon, 13-year-old Jeff Franz and 11-year-old JT Casady rode their bicycles to the front of Lisa’s house and placed stuffed animals near signs expressing hope for the child’s safe return.

The two boys, who were off from school Monday, said they wanted Lisa to have the animals when she returned home.

“What if it was one of my brothers or sisters, I would really be upset and done whatever I could if I thought it would help bring them back,” Jeff said.

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Normal Re: Lisa Irwin, still missing in Kansas City, MO

Post by Nama on Mon Oct 10, 2011 7:19 pm

Sean Bradley's family reportedly told reporters for Kansas City's Fox 4 that Sean and Deborah have been separated four years but did not divorce because of the cost.
I'm sorry, but if a couple can't afford a divorce then how can one of them afford to have another child? First things first. duct and run without that damn smile on my face!
It's called "prioritize"!

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Normal Re: Lisa Irwin, still missing in Kansas City, MO

Post by artgal16 on Mon Oct 10, 2011 7:31 pm

Whats this grand jury all about? Also about the kitten mentioned up thread - I think it was a reference to the shirt that Lisa had on when put to bed - a purple shirt with kittens on it. As to images I saw on JVM of the babies room everything looked in very good order, it wasnt messy or not clean, as we have seen in other houses where children have gone missing. But again with reference to the Anthonys home it was one of the most organized for a child I have ever seen, so it really doesnt mean much.
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Normal Re: Lisa Irwin, still missing in Kansas City, MO

Post by Slys Hunny on Mon Oct 10, 2011 8:19 pm

Wrapitup wrote:Sly said:
It was stated on our morning news that there is a handy man from the neighborhood who hasnt been seen since the day before Lisa came up missing.
Sly, what is that news station???? TIA!!!


Sorry Wrap didnt see this until just now it was on WIBW out of Topeka.
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Normal Re: Lisa Irwin, still missing in Kansas City, MO

Post by pickwick2011 on Mon Oct 10, 2011 8:39 pm

Thanks for the responses. Artgal, it is strange that someone came into and out of a window and the door was unlocked. I just can't wrap my head around what they are saying.

And thanks for the info on how the family is related and the link from BJ.

And thanks again artgal for helping me out with my confusion over the kittens. Yes, I do remember the shirt with kittens on it. I did think that in one story I read very early, someone mentioned that they were sleeping with a stray kitten they had found that day. It may have been a comment from someone who had misunderstood about the shirt.

And thanks to everyone above for the updates.

I find that I'm worried about this little girl. I know everyone is. It's horrible to contemplate that someone could come into your home and take your baby, but it does happen in these isolated cases.

Hopefully the parents are not involved and Lisa is safe somewhere and will be returned home.

I guess the police want the raw footage mentioned above that shows all the shifts in pronouns. It maybe conflicts with some things they said in interrogation. Maybe the police are going to show the film and then ask them about any discrepancies. ??

Thanks again everyone.

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Normal Re: Lisa Irwin, still missing in Kansas City, MO

Post by HippyChick2 on Mon Oct 10, 2011 10:00 pm

artgal16 wrote:I guess what I meant about the PJ's was that if the child was ill - normally you would not dress the child but leave them in their pajamas - It depends of course on their routine and if the child were well and not sick I wouldnt question it. Its the small details that sometimes help to solve a case. Its just one that bothered me.

My grandaughters have PJ's for the summer that are tops and little ruffly shorts. Maybe thats what this baby was wearing, not REALLY shorts but pajama shorts?? Just thinking..
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Normal Re: Lisa Irwin, still missing in Kansas City, MO

Post by pickwick2011 on Tue Oct 11, 2011 8:24 am

Weird about the mom buying wine with a guy at around 5 pm that evening....

Lisa Irwin's mother preparing to be arrested, aunt tells Good Morning America
Posted by Justin Kendall on Tue, Oct 11, 2011 at 7:48 AM

The search for baby Lisa led police to a Festival Foods store.

*
* The search for baby Lisa led police to a Festival Foods store.

The story of missing 11-month-old Lisa Irwin took another strange turn this morning. Lisa's aunt, Ashley Irwin, told Good Morning America that the missing baby's mother, Deborah Bradley, was preparing to be arrested.

Ashley Irwin called Bradley's arrest "inevitable" because, "It's what the police do, they don't have any leads, so they have to pin it on somebody."

So here were are a week since baby Lisa's disappearance, and the family is once again at odds with police. The Kansas City police disputed Ashley Irwin's claim.

"It's an absurd notion," Capt. Steve Young told Good Morning America. "We're not offended by it because it's so far from reality. We're under pressure to find a child. We're not under pressure to pin this on anybody or wrap it up and make an arrest."

In the interview, Ashley Irwin said she has no doubt that Bradley and Jeremy Irwin are innocent.

"Anybody who spends any time with them, you know it's not true — she's genuine — she loves that child," Ashley Irwin told GMA. "It's her baby … she would never anything to hurt her."

Last Thursday, police said baby Lisa's parents quit cooperating with their investigation. Bradley told the national news that police had blamed her and claimed that she failed a lie-detector test. However, the parents began meeting with police again on Saturday.

A Clay County grand jury has subpoenaed footage from Fox 4, KSHB, KCTV5 and KMBC, seeking "footage of any interviews… given by neighbors, family or friends of the family."

Fox 4 reported that found a receipt from the Festival Foods grocery store at Interstate 35 and Chouteau Trafficway. Detectives requested to see surveillance video, which Fox 4 reported showed Bradley and an unidentified man buying a box of wine, paper plates and napkins. It was recorded around 5 p.m. last Monday, about five hours before Bradley told police that she put baby Lisa to bed.

After seeing the video, authorities searched a fence line near the Irwin home but came up empty, Fox 4 reported.

Baby Lisa hasn't been seen since she was in her crib last Monday night around 10:30. Police believe she was abducted from her home at 3620 North Lister, possibly by someone who entered the home through an unlocked bedroom window, between 10:30 p.m. Monday and 4 a.m. Tuesday.

Lisa is described as having blue eyes and blond hair. She is 30 inches tall and weighs about 30 pounds. She was last seen wearing purple shorts and a purple shirt with kittens on it.

Lisa has two bottom teeth, a small bug bite under her left ear and a birthmark on her right outer thigh. She also has a cough with a cold.

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Normal Re: Lisa Irwin, still missing in Kansas City, MO

Post by pickwick2011 on Tue Oct 11, 2011 8:33 am

"Lisa's bedroom is on the ground level of the small house in a neighborhood in north Kansas City. A plain-clothes detective on Sunday afternoon climbed through the window, but not easily, as other officers observed."

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Normal Re: Lisa Irwin, still missing in Kansas City, MO

Post by pickwick2011 on Tue Oct 11, 2011 8:38 am

I found the mention of a kitten. Apparently it did come from the mother very early in this kidnapping. From KSDK.com on October 7:

Irwin, an electrician, says he returned from work around 4 a.m. Tuesday and discovered Lisa was missing. Bradley says she last checked on the child around 10:30 p.m. and that when Lisa disappeared she was asleep in her bed with her 6-year-old son and a stray kitten they found earlier in the day. The parents say they discovered their front door unlocked, a window open and house lights blazing, lending credence to the theory that the baby may have been snatched by an intruder.

Again...I don't see how you sleep that soundly with a stray kitten you just found and a small child. Unless you took a sleeping pill or something.

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Normal this would seem close to the time that dad must have left for work

Post by pickwick2011 on Tue Oct 11, 2011 8:42 am

Police obtained video surveillance footage that reportedly shows missing baby Lisa Irwin’s mother, Deborah Bradley, just hours before she claims she last saw Lisa. During one of the many police searches, investigators found a receipt from a Festival Foods store that is located just a mile and a half from the home where 10-month-old Lisa went missing a week ago.

Fox4KC.com is reporting that according to an employee at the Festival Foods store, Bradley was seen with an unidentified man buying a box of wine, paper plates and napkins. The video was recorded around 5:00 p.m. on Monday, October 3rd, which was about five hours before Bradley reported that she last saw baby Lisa. So far investigators have not commented on the video footage.



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Normal Re: Lisa Irwin, still missing in Kansas City, MO

Post by artgal16 on Tue Oct 11, 2011 8:47 am

So who was watching the baby at the time she was buying the wine? Was it the teenager from next door?
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Normal Re: Lisa Irwin, still missing in Kansas City, MO

Post by raine1953 on Tue Oct 11, 2011 9:27 am

Welcome to VH Pickwick2011! You are bringing good info to us here and it's very interesting. We do need a link thou' that will take one directly to the article or interview. Thank you in advance for posting links to the above.
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Normal Re: Lisa Irwin, still missing in Kansas City, MO

Post by cherylz on Tue Oct 11, 2011 9:48 am

So now the birth mother is preparing to be arrested. Unbelievable isn't it? Lesson learned in most of these cases...do not believe the tears. Oh, that's right KCA never really shed tears did she? Nope...and she was acquitted. I am still so angry and heartbroken.
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Normal Re: Lisa Irwin, still missing in Kansas City, MO

Post by artgal16 on Tue Oct 11, 2011 9:53 am

I dont necessarily believe what the Aunt said which was that the mother was going to be arrested. There is a grand jury meeting, but I just dont see how they can arrest the mother right now. Im very interested to know who this unidentified man Debbie was with at 5pm the night that Lisa went missing and who was watching all the children when she was at the store. No one has reported on this, but I think it might be something very significant.
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Normal Re: Lisa Irwin, still missing in Kansas City, MO

Post by cherylz on Tue Oct 11, 2011 9:57 am

What came to my mind was she having an affair? All the possibilities. Suspect
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Normal Re: Lisa Irwin, still missing in Kansas City, MO

Post by laga on Tue Oct 11, 2011 10:09 am

Yes, lots of possibilities and lots of questions. I wonder if any sign of the wine was found at the home or just the receipt.
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Normal Re: Lisa Irwin, still missing in Kansas City, MO

Post by artgal16 on Tue Oct 11, 2011 10:17 am

LE has asked for videos from TV stations - sometimes they are looking at the people in the crowds if there are any as many times people who commit crimes go to where the crime was committed. Thats the only reason I could think of they would want all these videos from the press. There were rumours of an affair last week but I discounted it, now Im not so sure.
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Normal Re: Lisa Irwin, still missing in Kansas City, MO

Post by pickwick2011 on Tue Oct 11, 2011 11:42 am

sorry about the links. The site said I couldn't leave a link for five days. when I removed links, everything went through okay.

ABC news showed the inside of the house on film. I could not picture what she was saying, but you do go through the room and come out facing the kitchen (and counter) and the baby's room is indeed right there to the right pretty much in front of you. So someone could have indeed picked up the phones and baby just like she said.

Paper plates and wine box and napkins suggest to me something like a picnic or backyard grill. Eating home with family would be more like dishes and napkins, I would think.

Maybe it was simply her brother with her on the video and they were buying something for a backyard picnic party.

If she DID meet a guy, he really could have gotten a clear idea how easy it would be to grab this baby. Maybe he was with her and saw the baby and maybe mom drank too much and that's why she could sleep with a new kitten and a kid and lights blazing and windows breaking. Drinking a lot of wine almost supports her story.

Maybe she's scared to say she had a guy there and she's saying she has no idea who it could be. Maybe she's wondering if the guy took her baby but can't say a word. Maybe they planned something bad together. Or maybe she was drunk and did something negligent (like not watching the baby in the bath) and the baby drowned and she is scared to say anything. That would be two wrongs there: not watching the baby and being drunk with the baby.

Everyone says she is a good mom. Maybe she drank and wasn't used to it and just can't face what happened or admit it at all.

I'm not sure how many bottles a box of wine contains, but I'm certain that someone who doesn't usually drink would be very drunk on half a box.

Anything could have happened when you add the alcohol and the unknown person.

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Normal Re: Lisa Irwin, still missing in Kansas City, MO

Post by Wrapitup on Tue Oct 11, 2011 11:47 am

Welcome pickwick 2011!! Your posts are extremely well written and thought out. You are most definitely a welcomed addition to VH!!!

We Do need a link for anything you find..

I did get the link from post 6 of yours.

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Post by artgal16 on Tue Oct 11, 2011 11:50 am

I just saw on msnbc TV that they are searching a very deep well near the home. Her drinking some wine also might be why she slept heavily and didnt hear anything, however, I really dont believe in the intruder scenario.
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Post by pickwick2011 on Tue Oct 11, 2011 11:50 am

I hadn't thought about the police looking for people in the crowd, but maybe that's what they are doing. Maybe the homeless guy everyone says is creepy is in the background.

I do think the police going through the window was meant for the press and neighbors as a bit of a show to cast doubt.

Just pondering......but if the mom wanted to leave the dad and wanted custody of the baby (which all agree belongs to them both) and she had another boyfriend, maybe she arranged to have the baby kidnapped and taken somewhere until she could separate. I'm saying this because the mother of his son says he was so ruthless. This mom would know that about him as well.

She couldn't even afford to get a divorce. So she surely cannot afford a custody battle against him and he has the money and job. The boys are conveniently divided between them. She could keep her own son and leave to be reunited with her daughter later. He would keep his son.

Maybe she is shocked by all the media attention as she wanted to stage this and go on quietly simply because she couldn't face a custody battle with someone 'ruthless'.

I'm twisting in the wind, I know.

Just trying to think of possibilities.

And hello everyone. It's nice to 'meet' you

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Post by Wrapitup on Tue Oct 11, 2011 11:50 am

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Post by pickwick2011 on Tue Oct 11, 2011 11:52 am

Thank you wrap-it-up!!!!:)

Artgal, I think we thought about the wine at the same time. I couldn't figure out the sleeping part. Now it makes more sense. She really could be telling some part of the truth.

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Post by artgal16 on Tue Oct 11, 2011 11:53 am

Pickwick = welcome - this is a wonderful place to share many things and thinking outside the box is welcome because for every crime committed there are a lot of crazy reasons why people do the things they do.
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Post by pickwick2011 on Tue Oct 11, 2011 12:18 pm

My initial, knee-jerk reaction when I heard the story at the beginning of the week was to hear this part:
I gave her a bath
the cell phones are gone
I know Deborah and she would never hurt her child

and I thought immediately that the baby had drowned in the tub. The person on here who analyzed the raw footage from her press talk early in the week pointed out that she said 'gave her a bath' and then she starts meandering in her speech about how a night at home usually goes. dress her and give her her bottle and binky and she sleeps with barney and glow worm

Something happened right there.

I thought maybe she had been on the cell phone with a friend and had walked away from the tub for a few minutes and then faced the worst thing when she came back.

Panic and then get rid of cell phone. Husband looks bewildered and upset because he is angry with her but doesn't want to lose custody of the son with the other mom. If they found Deborah guilty of some kind of child neglect (if that was what happened and she admitted it) then he would have faced losing his son in the custody dispute. Bio mom could have gone to court and taken son. He fought hard for son and won't lose him even if he has to go along with this lie.

Adding the wine really adds to that scenario.

Dad might not turn on Deborah no matter how hard the police push or how angry he is because he won't lose that son.

He had to have helped once whatever happened happened. Like the analyst above says, he changes his pronouns and gets really nervous when he talks about whatever happened when he got to the baby's room and his girlfriend's room.

But why go along with this? For his son, I think. Even if he panicked and helped initially, he cannot go back on that or he will lose that boy.


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Post by artgal16 on Tue Oct 11, 2011 12:33 pm

That sounds very logical but I guess Im not up on whose the boys belong to. So one boy is Debbies and one Lisa's father. is that correct? Where was the information of how Irwin got control of his son - and do we know why the mother didnt get custody?
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Normal Re: Lisa Irwin, still missing in Kansas City, MO

Post by pickwick2011 on Tue Oct 11, 2011 12:43 pm

I couldn't figure that out, either. But it turns out that one boy is his with a woman he didn't marry. He fought for custody and she says he's 'ruthless'.

One boy belongs to Deborah from a marriage to a guy in the army. They separated years ago but haven't been able to afford a divorce.

The baby girl Lisa is their child together.

I just saw that a firefighter lowered in the well just after 11 am felt something and they lowered a second firefighter. They are now draining the well.

Seems to have come from a 'tipster', though police said it came from their canvassing. Found one story where police said "not a tip, just canvassing' and several that said 'it was a tip'. So ?

Next week I won't be so rude about links, I promise.

I'm getting my best info by far from the local news in Kansas City. They are all over this, despite the family turning them away.


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Post by Wrapitup on Tue Oct 11, 2011 12:48 pm


Next week I won't be so rude about links, I promise.
LOL, it's not about "rudeness", it's a rule here. We must have a link if you post something from a news organization or off the internet.

I DO love the things you have to say and the way you write. What particular news in Kansas City are you getting your best info?

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Post by pickwick2011 on Tue Oct 11, 2011 12:49 pm

Artgal, the info on the biological parents of the boys is in the Daily Mail, of all places. They are starting to cover this like crazy. (along with Jordon Sparks, or course)

It showed footage of some media outlet actually going to a home of the biological mother. They never showed her or her family, but they did make the 'ruthless' comment, something I found interesting.

I can't imagine why the police wouldn't be talking to them to at least find out some background and ideas of their behaviors. I think the biological parents were baffled by that as well.

'Ruthless' is a strong word.

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Normal Re: Lisa Irwin, still missing in Kansas City, MO

Post by artgal16 on Tue Oct 11, 2011 12:50 pm

KANSAS CITY, Mo. - The search for 10-month-old Lisa Irwin has brought members of the Kansas City police and fire departments and the FBI to a vacant house about a half-mile away from her home.

Authorities have set up a tripod around a well underneath a deck on the home, in the 3800 block of North Brighton. Two investigators, sent down one at a time, rappelled into the well.

Kansas City police spokeswoman Stacey Graves said there is several feet of water at the bottom of the well. A little before 12:30 p.m., two water trucks arrived on the scene and appeared to be preparing to pump the water from the well.
Before they descended into the well, they performed an air quality test inside the well to ensure it is safe to enter, authorities on scene said. The well is about three feet wide and roughly 25 feet deep, according to investigators on scene.

Members of the Kansas City Fire Department told NBC Action News reporter Lindsay Shively the search was not the result of a tip, but of a canvass of the neighborhood that discovered the well was underneath the home's porch.

But in a statement e-mailed to media, Kansas City spokeswoman Stacey Graves said "investigators received a tip about an abandoned house (3838 N Brighton) with a well in the area near Lisa Irwin's home."

Speaking over the phone at about 12 p.m. Tuesday, Graves said she expected authorities to remain on the scene for several hours.

Lisa has been missing since last Tuesday, Oct. 4, when her father says he returned home from work to find her not inside her crib.

Investigators with the Kansas City Police Department and the FBI have been searching for Lisa ever since. Hundreds of tips have come into police, but Capt. Steve Young says none have turned into viable leads into her location or a potential suspect in her disappearance.

NBC Action News investigator Ryan Kath spoke with the property owner, who said the house has been vacant for about two years, adding someone would have to look under the deck to know the well is there. He said he hasn't been by the property in several months, and was waiting to sell the house until a "better time."
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Normal Re: Lisa Irwin, still missing in Kansas City, MO

Post by Wrapitup on Tue Oct 11, 2011 12:54 pm


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Post by artgal16 on Tue Oct 11, 2011 12:54 pm

Looking on Scared Monkeys thread - someone posted that Fox News says the tip on the well came from LE's criminal tipsters who are telling police to look closely at the mother

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Normal Re: Lisa Irwin, still missing in Kansas City, MO

Post by Wrapitup on Tue Oct 11, 2011 12:55 pm

I have a weird vibe they are about to find this baby. crying

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Post by artgal16 on Tue Oct 11, 2011 12:56 pm

I dont know, the well is under a porch and you would have to be very familiar with that to know its there, its been reported. Also didnt they have to pull up the boards to get to the well? Its not just an open hole is it?
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Normal Re: Lisa Irwin, still missing in Kansas City, MO

Post by Wrapitup on Tue Oct 11, 2011 12:59 pm

Lisa Irwin
Well searched in Lisa Irwin disappearance

Written by
Kristen Gosling

By MARIA SUDEKUM FISHER, Associated Press

KANSAS CITY, MO (AP) - Dozens of emergency workers began searching a well under the deck of a vacant home in Kansas City on Tuesday, just five blocks from the house where a 10-month-old baby vanished a week ago.

Crews were massed on and around the backyard deck late Tuesday morning, and members donned harnesses as they apparently readied to descend down the hole. The width and depth of the well were not immediately clear.

The well was discovered during a law enforcement canvass of the area, not a tip, said Capt. Steve Young, spokesman for the Kansas City Police Department. A neighbor said the single-story house had been abandoned for about four years.

Lisa Irwin's parents, Jeremy Irwin and Deborah Bradley, reported their daughter missing after Jeremy Irwin returned home from work a week ago Tuesday. Her parents said someone must have crept into their home while the child's mother and brothers slept and snatched the girl.

The search of the property came a day after a court ordered Kansas City television stations to submit all footage of interviews with friends and family of the girl. Investigators said Tuesday they have no suspects in the case.

Grand jury subpoenas from Clay County Circuit Court were sent late Monday to at least four network affiliates in Kansas City, according to their websites. The subpoenas said the television stations were being told to submit "all footage, including raw footage of any interviews or statements given by neighbors, family or friends of the family, regarding missing baby, Lisa Irwin."

The subpoenas, which were requested by the Clay County prosecutor's office, said at least two of the stations were told to appear with the footage in court on Oct. 18. It was not immediately clear whether the grand jury was called for the purpose of issuing the subpoenas or if it had already been seated to take up other matters.

Jim Roberts, a spokesman for the Clay County prosecutor's office, said the subpoenas were needed to prevent broadcasters from destroying video they might otherwise discard, in case there's a need for the material later.

Detectives and crime scene investigators were at the family's home Monday for more than two hours scouring areas of the backyard and poking through shrubbery and grass in the back of the house and in neighbors' yards. Police earlier in the investigation searched a landfill, nearby woods, an industrial park and sewers in their effort to follow up on more than 300 tips.

"Our detectives are doing everything possible you would expect them to do in this case," Young said Tuesday. He declined to comment on the subpoenas.

Bryan McGruder, vice president for news at WDAF, said the station would provide all footage it had aired about the case. But he said the station would not hand over any raw footage because workers "routinely recycle what we use."

R. Michael Cassidy, a professor at Boston College Law School, said there could be several reasons for seeking the footage. He said investigators may want the footage to find inconsistencies in parents' accounts of the events surrounding their daughter's disappearance.

"It could mean that they have one or both of the parents as suspects, and they are developing evidence of everything they said in the past and prior to the arrest," Cassidy said Tuesday. "To show that someone's story has shifted over time can also be very damning."

Neither parent has been named as a suspect, but Bradley has said police told her she failed a lie detector test.

Police may also want the footage in order to review "the landscape around the house," shortly after the disappearance was reported.

"It could be that these visuals of the immediate area are important," he said.

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Normal Re: Lisa Irwin, still missing in Kansas City, MO

Post by pickwick2011 on Tue Oct 11, 2011 1:02 pm

Fox News just reported the tips came from criminal informants who kept encouraging the Police to look closely at the mother.


Oh, No. I pray she is not in this well.

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Normal Re: Lisa Irwin, still missing in Kansas City, MO

Post by artgal16 on Tue Oct 11, 2011 1:03 pm

I dont believe she is.
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Normal Re: Lisa Irwin, still missing in Kansas City, MO

Post by pickwick2011 on Tue Oct 11, 2011 1:04 pm

Do you think this is for the media to see?

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