Lisa Irwin, still missing in Kansas City, MO

Investigators spend almost 17 hours searching inside Lisa Irwin home
By GLENN E. RICE

The Kansas City Star
Mike Ransdell

Investigators search Irwin home
Sixteen days in the Lisa Irwin case: A KC toddler is still missing

A team of police and federal investigators spent nearly 17 hours scouring the Northland residence of 11-month-old Lisa Irwin for clues in connection to her disappearance.

Capt. Steve Young said investigators and crime scene technicians completed their work around midnight. Young would not disclose what evidence was collected.

On Wednesday, police and federal agents returned to the home located in the 3600 block of North Lister Avenue around 8:30 a.m. to execute a search warrant.

Police have been in the house before but always with the family’s consent, Young said.

Investigators dressed in white protective suits spent all day and most of the evening working inside and outside the residence, as well as around a garage behind the home.

It appeared investigators used X-ray equipment, likely to examine walls, pipes and floor boards. Technicians poked through flower beds, gutters along the roof and even through a memorial located in the front yard. They were also seen carrying carpets out of the home.

However, no new developments have emerged overnight. Police are continuing their investigation into the disappearance, which was reported early Oct. 4

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jeanne1807 wrote:

laga wrote:

jeanne1807 wrote: Why didn't they call 911...I donno. Why didn't Casey call 911 when Caylee drowned?????

Sorry, you all know me, I gotta answer this one.......Because Caylee DID NOT drown!

Well a jury of twelve and two alternates think she did!

The only thing I heard from the infamous 14 was that the state did not prove how, when or where, so they did not know how Caylee died.

If something happened in that house, accident or not, I think LE will know soon enough. It seems like they have gone over that house very thoroughly.

Agree, Laga!!!! I think they will get to the crux of this by the weekend if not sooner. MOO.

Sorry gals but I disagree.

They never found Caylee and look at all the "hints" they were given.

Place Caylee buried pets.
Her jailhouse "Caylee is close"
So close to her home.

I often think that LE was lax in that investigation.

I think every single leaf is being turned in this search for baby Lisa but hope is dwindling on my part.

It's not looking good.....sigh.

Well maybe the grand jury will bring back an indictment though at this point, it doesnt look good. They know after the Anthony case they are going to need really solid evidence to bring in a conviction.

Deborah Bradley, the mother of missing Kansas City infant Lisa Irwin, has come under a cloud of suspicion, as police accuse her of being uncooperative and her recollection of events leading up to the disappearance seems to change.

None of that appears to surprise Shirley Pfaff, who describes herself as Bradley's former best friend.

"She was my friend at one time and I loved to be around her, but when I [saw] the other side of her and got to know the true Debbie, I couldn't even believe I trusted her with anything," Pfaff told The Huffington Post.

Pfaff said she was surprised by Baby Lisa's disappearance, but not by the inconsistencies surrounding Bradley's story.

"I am not shocked that her story has changed like the wind," she said. "That's typical Debbie."

Pfaff, who now lives in Erie, Pa., said she met Bradley in 2002 at Ft. Bragg, N.C. They were military wives at the time and lived across the street from each other. The couple's kids played together and they quickly became close friends, she said.

"When the story broke, it was a normal morning in my house," Pfaff added. "I got up, put on a pot of coffee and turned on 'Good Morning America' like usual and I ... heard 'Deborah Bradley.' I immediately thought, 'This can't be the Debbie I know.' It just seemed unreal until I walked back into the living room after hearing her voice. I just about collapsed. It just made me sick because I just wouldn't put this girl Debbie past anything crazy."

"I was friends with Debbie for some time [and] then the 'friend' I once grew fond of became a 'problem' I had to deal with on a daily basis," she said.

Pfaff said she was happy when the military transferred her husband.

"Me and my ex-husband got orders to be stationed overseas in Europe shortly after mine and Debbie's friendship diminished," she said. "So I thought of that as a new clean slate for us, without all the drama Debbie created with and around us."

Pfaff would not elaborate on the exact problems she had with Bradley, but insisted she is not a "Debbie-basher."

"My intentions of speaking with the media [are] to shed some light on the Debbie I once knew, both good and bad," she said.

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COMMENTARY
Lisa Irwin spotlight seekers may soon lose interest
By BARBARA SHELLY
The Kansas City Star

We have seen this before. I happened to be traveling in South Africa in 2002 when 14-year-old Elizabeth Smart was abducted from her Salt Lake City home. Two South African ladies were among the group I was with, and they couldn’t get enough of the story.

The irony was inescapable. Children in South Africa still perish by the hundreds from AIDS and other diseases and violence, and these big-hearted women sat clucking in front of the TV set as CNN reporters breathlessly updated us on every detail about the missing girl from Utah.

Wherever there is TV and Internet access, people know about Lisa, the baby who vanished days before turning 11 months old. Her disappearance is a whodunit in which news viewers everywhere feel nearly as invested as Lisa’s neighbors.

The interest has created many odd scenes. Darryl Forté became Kansas City’s first African-American police chief last week and took questions not about the city’s most vexing problem, black-on-black violence on the East Side, but about the missing white baby from the Northland.

Then we were treated to the appearance of “Wild Bill” Stanton, the not-very-private eye from New York City. He blew into town, gave some flamboyant news conferences, talked with Lisa’s parents, announced a $100,000 reward for information that would crack the case and returned to New York. Supposedly, he is busy at work there, trying to solve the case.

Wild Bill was replaced by another New Yorker, celebrity lawyer Joe Tacopina. He made his grand entrance on Monday, gave the obligatory news conferences and denied that his clients, Lisa’s parents, Deborah Bradley and Jeremy Irwin, were being uncooperative with police.

Soon he was back in New York. After telling Bradley and Irwin to give no more interviews, he settled into the studios of FOX News, where he criticized Kansas City police for obtaining a search warrant for the family’s home.

“I don’t know if it’s for show or not,” the showman lawyer said, apparently oblivious to the incongruity of that remark.

As for Kansas City police, the lawyer from New York had a pithy request: “Please stop whining and go find Lisa.”

In the same interview, Tacopina described Bradley and Irwin as “very simple, very sweet people. Intelligent but simple.…”

If we accept that description, it perhaps explains how the parents got suckered into working with this out-of-town publicity hound, who is surely doing them no favors by insulting the police. The involvement of respected Kansas City lawyer Cynthia Short, who also is representing the parents, makes a lot more sense.

A lot of the interest in Lisa Irwin centers more on the mystery than the baby. Any number of scenarios are possible, but here is one:

Weeks and then months go by with no baby found and no arrests made. Wild Bill and the blustery Tacopina move on to other clients. The case fades from headlines. Only the citizens of Kansas City and its law enforcement community remember that a baby is out there, somewhere, and a wrong must be set right.

Recall the child known as Precious Doe. Kansas City police had her decapitated corpse but no identity. For four years they worked the case. Citizens established a memorial for the unclaimed child. After the girl was finally identified as 3-year-old Erica Green and her mother and mother’s boyfriend charged with the killing, now-retired Kansas City homicide Sgt. David Bernard served as a pallbearer in the child’s burial.

Right now, the Lisa Irwin story belongs to everyone. But curiosity is ephemeral. Duty is solid. Kansas City’s police and community will be there for baby Lisa when the spotlight fades and the opportunists depart.

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KANSAS CITY, Mo. -- A man driving home the night missing 11-month-old Lisa Irwin disappeared said he saw a man carrying a baby in Lisa's neighborhood.
Mike Thompson said he saw the man wearing a T-shirt and carrying a baby near Lisa's home at about 4 a.m. on Tuesday Oct. 4. Thompson said he waited about a week before he called police because he didn't immediately make the connection between what he saw and Lisa's disappearance.

"I was going south on 435, I exited on 48th Street, and I see a man who was walking up Randolph carrying a baby," Thompson said. "And I looked at him, he was about 30 feet from me, he turned and looked at me, and I looked at him. It's 4 o'clock in the morning, 45 degrees and the baby doesn't have a blanket, a coat, nothing," Mike Thompson told ABC. "And this guy is walking down the street. I thought it was kind of weird."
Thompson said the baby resembled Lisa, and that he would be able to identify the man if he ever saw him again.
Thompson said he has been interviewed by police.

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video I cannot embed.

I dont believe the man who saw someone carrying a baby as he states. I dont believe one word of it.
I hope as Barbara Shelly wrote in the thread above that the police will stay on this case even after it has gone stone cold to help to bring little Lisa home.

Deborah Bradley, the mother of missing Kansas City infant Lisa Irwin, has come under a cloud of suspicion, as police accuse her of being uncooperative and her recollection of events leading up to the disappearance seems to change.



None of that appears to surprise Shirley Pfaff, who describes herself as Bradley's former best friend.

"She was my friend at one time and I loved to be around her, but when I [saw] the other side of her and got to know the true Debbie, I couldn't even believe I trusted her with anything," Pfaff told The Huffington Post.

Pfaff, who now lives in Erie, Pa., said she met Bradley in 2002 at Ft. Bragg, N.C. They were military wives at the time and lived across the street from each other. The couple's kids played together and they quickly became close friends, she said.

"When the story broke, it was a normal morning in my house," Pfaff added. "I got up, put on a pot of coffee and turned on 'Good Morning America' like usual and I ... heard 'Deborah Bradley.' I immediately thought, 'This can't be the Debbie I know.' It just seemed unreal until I walked back into the living room after hearing her voice. I just about collapsed. It just made me sick because I just wouldn't put this girl Debbie past anything crazy."

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I think I read something about this woman speaking before - didnt she say that Debbie stole from her and tried to sleep with her husband? Or was that someone else?

I think its the same woman. I seen her posing over on the Statement Analysis blog.

Today on GMA they had two people that saw a man walking down the street with a baby. No clothes or blanket only a diaper.

Why didn't they call 911 and report him. People have absolutely no feelings for other human beings anymore.

We read where somebody hits a woman crossing a street and doesn't even stop the car.

Now we read of a near naked baby being walked down a street in 45 degree weather and nobody calls police.

What a sad society we have become.

Cadavar dog makes hit in Debra's bedroom. Wow.

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That doesnt make sense to me - unless the dog was identifying blood or tissue. Because the child couldnt have been dead long enough for the scent to be there of a dead body - at least thats my understanding of how cadaver dogs detect the scent. But they can pick up on blood and tissue

Court documents released on Friday show that a cadaver dog indicated a "hit" in the bedroom of Lisa Irwin's parents during a search of the home this week. The search warrant return also indicated that police investigated "freshly-turned" dirt in the backyard.

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But they didnt say if there was a hit by the dogs in the yard - only freshly turned dirt. I cant believe they would have buried her in the yard???

what does everyone think the hit in the bedroom floor is all about? I don't understand how a cadaver dog could detect human remains with such a short time frame, considering the window in which Debra had to either find Lisa unresponsive from whatever could have happened to her, ie, fall from crib from crib setting be so high for a 10 month old, or from neglect, being sick and chocking on vomit, etc. OR when she could have done something to her in the fit of rage from a drunken stooper... It was said a friend was with her until 10:30, correct, so if that is true, then I just don't see how decomp would show up even if the baby was put on the floor for a short period of time, wouldn't the baby have to be dead for a while before decomp set it?

Somebody, anybody know how long before decom sets in?

It wouldnt be decomp but they can hit on blood or tissue is my understanding. Lisa at 11 months is not an infant she is really a toddler - on the dailymail.co.uk there is a short video of twin toddlers boys and one of them easily climbed out of his crib - they didnt give an age but he looked about the same as Lisa. Either the hit was false or else there was blood or some other fluid that they picked up on.

Could someone else have died in that house in the past, possibly before Irwin bought the house? Grasping at straws here, but how fresh does that scent have to be in order for the cadaver dogs to detect it?

I just read that they used the hit by the dog to get the search warrent as a justification.
link
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I dont claim by any means to understand the cadaver dogs and how it all works but ive been told that the human body starts emitting a gas at the time of death and thats what they hit on.

Im curious about the tape taken in the warrant

Thanks Art!

Sly, I was wondering if the Gas a body emitting could be what the dog could have hit on! I was thinking because the it was on the floor next to her bed, I wonder if in the case of an accident, if she had tried to perform CPR to revive her and it didn't work. If she had taken CPR classes, she would know one should place a person on a hard surface, not a bed that is soft. IDK, I too am grasping at straws here!

That tape has me wondering copy cat????Lord I hope im wrong.

From Art's above link:
Cadaver dog has 'hit' inside baby Lisa's home
Details of search warrant released; still no sign of missing 10-month-old Kansas City girl

updated 2 hours 55 minutes ago

KANSAS CITY, Mo. — An FBI cadaver dog reacted to the scent of a dead person inside the Kansas City home where a baby girl disappeared nearly three weeks ago, according to a police affidavit released Friday.

The affidavit was filed to support a search warrant request for the home of Deborah Bradley and Jeremy Irwin, who reported their 10-month-old daughter, Lisa Irwin, missing Oct. 4 and said someone must have crept into the home and taken the girl while the mother and two other boys slept.

The affidavit said the dog taken into the house Monday indicated a "positive `hit' for the scent of a deceased human in an area of the floor of Bradley's bedroom near the bed." A judge approved the warrant Tuesday and police and the FBI conducted a daylong search Wednesday.

Court documents filed Friday said police took blankets, toys and clothing from the house, as well as rolls of tape and a tape dispenser. (Reminds me of the search warrant on the Anthony home).

Ppolice declined to discuss what they found.

"We aren't able to talk about specifics of the case," said police spokeswoman Stacey Graves. "The documents that were made public will have to stand on their own."
The FBI dogs, which often are used at both disaster and crime scenes, are trained "specially to recognize the scent of decaying, decomposing human flesh," retired FBI special agent Jeff Lanza said Friday.

"That's what they hit on. What the dogs are saying is that they smell that scent," Lanza said. "That can be the scent of an actual body decomposing, or residual scents after the body is no longer there."

Wednesday's search was perhaps law enforcement's most aggressive yet at the parent's home, drawing officers armed with shovels, rakes and other tools who hauled off bags that appeared to be full of potential evidence.

Police also brought in a bomb and arson truck to assist the search, though spokesman Capt. Steve Young said there were no indications of explosives in the house. Some bomb detection devices use X-ray technology to scan solid objects to reveal items concealed within. An AP reporter saw investigators carrying at least a dozen thin, black rectangular sheets away from the home during the afternoon.

Attorneys are disputing claims that the parents of a missing Kansas City baby aren't cooperating with police.
A statement issued earlier Friday by Cynthia Short, a lawyer for Bradley and Irwin, say the couple has been helpful since they reported their daughter missing.
Short said police have "starved these parents by withholding information about the investigation."
Short's statement added: "The police have isolated the parents and repeatedly told the press that they are not cooperating. Lisa's parents are cooperating with this investigation and will continue to offer their help in the search for their beautiful little girl."

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I bet JVM and NG w/be all over this!!

Is this a Casey copy cat???????

Cadaver Dog Smells Decomposition on Lisa Irwin’s Parents' Bedroom Floor

Fox News is reporting that a cadaver dog made a hit on the floor of missing baby Lisa Irwin's parents' bedroom Monday. That information was included in the affidavit used to get a warrant to search the Irwin home. The search began on Wednesday.

Cadaver Dogs Reliable

Cadaver dogs are considered highly reliable, according to Dogs Don't Lie. They average about 92 percent accuracy picking up the scent of death in scientific tests. In 100 cases, cadaver dogs may alert erroneously 0 to 9 times and may miss 0 to 25 times. In actual conditions, the dogs are able to find scattered human remains in 57 to 100 percent of cases. They are able to sniff out skeletonized remains even when the remains are deeply buried.

Bloodhounds are especially useful in searches involving children because they can pick up the scent of a body being carried. They also have some 60 times the tracking capabilities of other search dogs.

Scent Tracking Mechanism a Mystery

While cadaver dogs are considered highly reliable, scientists don't quite understand how they are able to differentiate and track scents. All agree it is some form of chemical marking, but some suspect it's outgassing of volative fatty acids, methane, urea, cadaverine, and various ionic compounds while other scientists think that unique protein markers are responsible.

Cadaver Dog Hit Significance to Lisa Irwin Investigation

The police dog hitting on the Irwin bedroom floor does not necessarily mean baby Lisa died and was at that location. Cadaver dogs don't distinguish whose decomposed human tissue they smell. The scent of decomposed tissue need not mean anyone died at all. Sometimes decomposing tissue is detected because of bloody clothing left behind after an injury or used sanitary napkins having been present.

It's especially important that investigators not jump to hasty conclusions or use uncorroborated dog alert evidence as circumstantial evidence of guilt for these reasons.

While the cadaver dog evidence is an ominous sign that police may now search for baby Lisa's body, that conclusion is not a given. Especially with police still investigating reports of a man having been seen with a baby in suspicious circumstances the night Lisa Irwin was reported missing from her crib, there's still room for hope that what the cadaver dog smelled was not baby Lisa.

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I dont know if I can put too much stock in the hit by the dog. But I also am very confused by the sighting of a man in a Tshirt walking down a street at midnight holding a baby with only a diaper on. Why didnt someone just make a simple phone call to the police.
You can report a suspicious person after all - when are people going to start taking the initiative and really get involved except after the fact with the stupid balloon releases.

Ok im confused is this man who says he saw someone with a baby in the middle of the night the same someone who they were talking about in the begining of the case? Or a new one?

If this has already been posted, please forgive me. I am not in the mood to go back and look. :zzzzz:

The warrant pdf doc:
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Slys Hunny wrote:Ok im confused is this man who says he saw someone with a baby in the middle of the night the same someone who they were talking about in the begining of the case? Or a new one?

As I understand it the couple that saw the man and baby down the block reported it the next day. The man that saw the baby and man 3 miles away reported it a week later.

So LE has known about this almost from the very beginning.

I keep think of Jeremy and his lack of emotion..could he be the one carrying the baby? Is he in shock? But how could he get home in time to call LE.

Something has always been wrong with these timelines.

I also am wondering if the man was carrying an alive baby or a dead baby?

I wonder what else LE has to tell?

I keep think of Jeremy and his lack of emotion..could he be the one carrying the baby? Is he in shock? But how could he get home in time to call LE.

Something has always been wrong with these timelines.

It so reminds me of Ron Cummings. "I was at work."

All I know about cadaver dogs I learned from all the cases we have studied here....seems I remember from the cummings case, cadaver dogs do NOT make a false hit on something like a used sanitary pad....also from the anthony case I seem to remember that decomposition starts immediately and even if body is in one spot a very short time it can be detected by cadaver dog.

I think I am right but if my memory is faulty I will apologize. I am looking for info/links...

I believe you are correct Laga, and also if the child was dead and there was even a little blood or fluid that was cleaned up a dog could hit on it.

It would be hard to find, but we have every.single.video from the Anthony trial and the cop spoke in length about cadaver dogs. I remember Bozo asked him the same questions over and over and his explanations were excellent.

Sometimes decomposing tissue is detected because of bloody clothing left behind after an injury or used sanitary napkins having been present.

This is from upthread. Confusing!!!

I think you're right too Laga. It was either on JVM or NG tonight there was an explanation for how long does it take for the scent to develop (not their words) for the dogs to recognize the death scent. I'm sorry I just can't remember which show it was but the man did say it could be as short as 1 1/2 hours but maybe more like 3 hours. I hope this helps!

Local attorney Cyndy Short has joined New York lawyer Joe Tacopina in assisting the parents of missing Baby Lisa Irwin.

Cyndy Short graduated from law school in 1987 in St. Louis, Missouri. She was toiling away in a small labor law firm when she was appointed to represent a young poor woman accused by the federal government of attempting to assassinate Jesse Jackson during his 1988 presidential campaign. This experience changed the course of her practice, and she dedicated most of the next 15 years of her career to the representation of poor people as a public defender in Kansas City(first in the trial division, then in the capital litigation division where she served as head of that office for nearly a decade). Cyndy's achievements for her clients are too numerous to mention. But one highlight occurred very early in her career, when a jury angered by the treatment of her client acquitted him and demanded an apology from the police and prosecutors for their wrongdoing. Once she devoted her practice to death penalty cases, she achieved wonderful results for her clients including dismissals, acquittals, and an exoneration. Her accomplishments have not gone unnoticed. She received the Lon O. Hocker Memorial Trial Lawyer Award in 1997, given annually by the Missouri Bar in recognition of outstanding trial work. She also received the Defender of Distinction Award in 1998 for her dedication to representing poor people charged with serious crimes. That is the highest honor given by the Missouri State Public Defender. The Western Coalition to Abolish the Death Penalty recognized her work on the Dick Dexter case with their Courageous Litigator Award.
Cyndy Short graduated from Gerry Spence's Trial Lawyers' College in 1994. Since 1997, she has been a TLC faculty member trains lawyers and judges around the country. She also serves on TLC's board as the liaison for TLC's alumni association (The F Warriors).
Numerous people owe their freedom and their lives to Cyndy's dedication, compassion, personal sacrifice, and skill as a trial lawyer.



Areas of Practice:
Criminal Defense
Death Penalty Mitigation
Serious Felonies
Murder Cases
Sexual Abuse Cases
Criminal Trial Consultant

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Areas of Practice:
Criminal Defense
Death Penalty Mitigation
Serious Felonies
Murder Cases
Sexual Abuse Cases
Criminal Trial Consultant


Golly gee none of these sound good for Baby Lisa. Sigh...

raine1953 wrote:I think you're right too Laga. It was either on JVM or NG tonight there was an explanation for how long does it take for the scent to develop (not their words) for the dogs to recognize the death scent. I'm sorry I just can't remember which show it was but the man did say it could be as short as 1 1/2 hours but maybe more like 3 hours. I hope this helps!

Please forgive me I cant find the link but I read somewhere yesterday the gases emitted from a dead person are enough for a dog to detect in as little as 10 minutes.

I have to wonder if these people who saw this man carrying a baby could tell if the baby was alive or not? The second guy says he could identify the man if he saw him again so I would assume it wasnt Jeremy as often as hes been in the media. I wonder if this guy has seen a good picture of her brother?

Just finished reading the article about Baby Lisa in People magazine.

A couple of things I noticed.

One was a picture of Debra and Jeremy standing head to head. His hands were in his pockets..no embrace from Mr. Warmth. Telling I think.

The other was that Debra said she made dinner for her neighbor that night.

I am sure I saw or read somewhere that the neighbor said she never saw Lisa that night.

When did anybody besides D and J see Lisa?

What a mess.

Jeanne that was my question as well - when did someone other than Debbie and Jeremy actually see Lisa?

"My understanding is that there are cold cases where dogs have hit on scents of decomposition that have been in the home for as long as 28 years," said Cyndy Short, in an exclusive interview with "Good Morning America." "This is an old home. 63 years old. There could be a lot of other explanations for that."

But Brad Garrett, an ABC News consultant and former FBI special agent, said cadaver dogs are typically accurate.

"In studies done of cadaver dogs where the dog has direct access to the scent and its reasonably fresh - its above 90 percent.

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