Profile of a liar

View previous topic View next topic Go down

Normal Profile of a liar

Post by artgal16 on Fri Dec 04, 2009 2:19 pm

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]
I thought this article which came out in October of 2008 by Dr Keith Ablow
bears repeating. It gives insight into Casey Anthonys ability to lie and how
that behavior was formed as she grew up.

Now that murder charges have been filed against Casey Anthony, the question of her underlying character is more important to answer than ever. Her 3-year-old daughter Caylee is allegedly dead, by her hands. This, after months of Casey lying to family, police and even the famed bail bondsman who sprung her from jail, convinced he could get her to tell the truth about her daughter’s whereabouts.

Without having examined Ms. Anthony, I won’t hazard a diagnosis of her. But there’s plenty that’s clear from her demeanor and behavior.

First, Anthony displays an extraordinary capacity to lie. She spun tall tales about Caylee’s whereabouts, leading police on wild goose chases. She maintained her falsehoods, or generated new ones at will, even in the face of authority figures–like police or the courts–using their influence to try to unravel them.

This “ability” to deceive and not be coaxed back toward the facts may indicate that she has homed this ability since childhood. While we don’t know enough about Anthony’s childhood, one kind of environment that could spawn this comfort with lying would be a home where her real and genuine feelings were disregarded or in which punishment was inevitable, regardless of whether she was truly blameworthy. In such circumstances, children and adolescents can break from attempts to stay safe or be vindicated by the facts and learn to lie very effectively to escape responsibility. Lying to parents is the growing place for lying to other authority figures, without a “normal” amount of anxiety when doing so.

Second, Anthony showed almost no panic or concern or depression related to her daughter being missing or dead. This raises the possibility that she is almost entirely cut off from concerns about the suffering or well-being of others. As a woman alone among us, she could be focused exclusively on her own needs–for pleasure or power or money.

Again, having evaluated many murderers and testified in their trials, it is my opinion that this disconnectedness is not genetic. You aren’t born with it. It is the outgrowth of earlier life events that were painful enough to lead a person to abandon emotional bonds with others–and with the self. Faced with untenable traumatic or stressful events or relationships, it is as if the person signs off from the interpersonal bonds that define real connections. And that makes the person capable of inflicting great harm on others without feeling remorse.

Third, Anthony seems to display the same kind of misguided self-confidence or narcissism that was evident in Scott Peterson. Peterson (and it seems Anthony) was a bad liar because his lack of empathy also meant he lacked sensitivity to how others would judge his tall tales. It may well be the case that Anthony, too, has trouble telling convincing lies because she can’t intuit how her audience–whether police or a jury–will “hear” them (whether they will ring true).

Anthony recently cried when the murder charges against her were recited in court. That’s consistent with concern about her own future–which might be spent behind bars, instead of in nightclubs. It also reminds all of us that her grief does not appear to extend to her daughter’s likely fate, which apparently moves her far less, if at all.
avatar
artgal16

Join date : 2009-06-09

Back to top Go down

Normal Re: Profile of a liar

Post by artgal16 on Fri Dec 04, 2009 2:23 pm

The recent moves by the defense to block Anthonys videotaped reaction to the finding of Caylees body brings to mind that the reaction was more concern about her own future - as stated in Dr. Ablow's article above than about Caylee being found dead.
avatar
artgal16

Join date : 2009-06-09

Back to top Go down

Normal Re: Profile of a liar

Post by Wrapitup on Fri Dec 04, 2009 7:10 pm

The author suggests these characteristics are not genetic but rather, self-induced by outside influences. I would love to know just what Cindy and/or George did to Casey that could make her so uncaring.

_________________
Prayers for our little HaLeigh Cummings, wherever she may be!!

Nine-tenths of wisdom is appreciation. Go find somebody’s hand and squeeze it, while there’s time.
-- Dale Dauten--

Thank you RAINE for all you ARE!! I will ALWAYS hold you in my Heart!!
avatar
Wrapitup
Founder
Founder

Join date : 2009-05-28

http://victimsheartland.forumotion.com/forum.htm

Back to top Go down

Normal Re: Profile of a liar

Post by Guest on Fri Dec 04, 2009 9:06 pm

It's not just the parents that affect how people turn out. Peer pressure, lack of structure, the teachers etc.
avatar
Guest
Guest


Back to top Go down

Normal Re: Profile of a liar

Post by Wrapitup on Fri Dec 04, 2009 9:35 pm

Agreed, but in this case, I just don't see what Casey's social environment could have done or said to her to make her so uncaring. In this case, if I were going to blame anyone for the way Casey turned out, I would have to put the blame on Cindy and George.

_________________
Prayers for our little HaLeigh Cummings, wherever she may be!!

Nine-tenths of wisdom is appreciation. Go find somebody’s hand and squeeze it, while there’s time.
-- Dale Dauten--

Thank you RAINE for all you ARE!! I will ALWAYS hold you in my Heart!!
avatar
Wrapitup
Founder
Founder

Join date : 2009-05-28

http://victimsheartland.forumotion.com/forum.htm

Back to top Go down

Normal Re: Profile of a liar

Post by TerryRose on Fri Dec 04, 2009 10:16 pm

lindamarie wrote:It's not just the parents that affect how people turn out. Peer pressure, lack of structure, the teachers etc.

I agree totally with you, LM. I absolutely refuse to blame CA and George for the actions of their adult daughter. All parents make mistakes in parenting and all parents have flaws in their own personalities. Most kids turn out leading law-abiding decent lives in spite of this. No, if anything, this gal is totally selfish, narcissistic, and, if her parents influenced this at all, it just may have been letting her get away with too much over time without repercussions, and thus enabling her to go on lying, cheating, stealing, and hurting others. But, as an adult woman, this gal must face her own crimes and be responsible for them, NOT her parents. JMO.
avatar
TerryRose

Join date : 2009-05-31

Back to top Go down

Normal Re: Profile of a liar

Post by Wrapitup on Sat Dec 05, 2009 12:32 am

I agree with you, Terry Rose. That is exactly what I meant - George and in particular, Cindy let her get away with too much without repercussions and DID enable her to continue the lying, stealing, etc. Now, most kids would not grow up to become a murderer even if they were spoiled rotten. But IN THIS PARTICULAR CASE, I do believe the entire family is not mentally sound which led to Casey taking Caylee's life and again, I think Cindy had and still has the most influence over Casey.

_________________
Prayers for our little HaLeigh Cummings, wherever she may be!!

Nine-tenths of wisdom is appreciation. Go find somebody’s hand and squeeze it, while there’s time.
-- Dale Dauten--

Thank you RAINE for all you ARE!! I will ALWAYS hold you in my Heart!!
avatar
Wrapitup
Founder
Founder

Join date : 2009-05-28

http://victimsheartland.forumotion.com/forum.htm

Back to top Go down

Normal Re: Profile of a liar

Post by Guest on Mon Dec 28, 2009 5:49 pm

Keith Ablow wrote the book "Inside the Mind of Scott Peterson" and he didn't blame Scott's parents as they were victims too, but pointed out how the things that happened in Jackie (Scott's mother) damaged her and how her whole life up to to that point Scott came along damaged her, plus the fact that she was married to someone (Scott's father's second marriage) who didn't want any more children when Scott was born caused Scott to grow up in an environment that helped shape him into a sociopath.

If I can remember correctly, Scott pretty much learned that he had to be a perfect child. His father used to refer to him as his "golden boy" because Scott was so "good" all the time.

The reality is no child is that good all the time, but Scott was not allowed to be "real" in his childhood for fear of abandonment (his mother had already given away two children for adoption) and more than anything just underlying subliminal communication that he had to be perfect to exist. Thus he got so used to "faking" it that he was essentially a fake inside out.

Ablow was really very empathetic toward both of Scott's parents, and didn't blame them any more than he blamed Scott. But the end result was Scott was so disconnected, he was sort of an empty shell of a person.

I hope I haven't misquoted Keith Ablsow...but that's my book report and it was imo a very good read (Inside the Mind of Scott Peterson). I highly recommend it.

I would love to have him do a book about Casey Anthony like the one he did on Scott Peterson. It might make me realize that even though the death penalty or life in prison may be justified, I can still be empathetic and perhaps just thank God that, "There but for the grace of God go I" as the book about Scott Peterson did.

I sure wouldn't want to be a member of the Anthony household!!!! There's a lot of sickness there. One can watch how the Anthonys jump in knowing full well that she is guilty (no matter what they say) and fight the whole world tooth and nail to protect Casey....or appearances??? Who knows? But the reality is they aren't fooling anyone, but will apparently die trying to pull the wool over the whole world's eyes (which ya gotta admit is just plain NUTS!).

It's not always just children that are terribly abused physically or sexually Sometime it is just the emotional sickness in the family dynamics that help turn them into sociopaths.

Scott Peterson it appears was never physically abused or sexually abused, but both of his parents were apparently pretty sick puppies.
avatar
Guest
Guest


Back to top Go down

Normal Re: Profile of a liar

Post by Guest on Mon Dec 28, 2009 5:59 pm

wildflower that was an excellent post. I see the same personality disorders between these two. They have soulless eyes. Chemical imbalances are born in to people. It is true mental illness. Does not mean they don't know right from wrong they do. But they can't get over themselves to love anyone else. The don't live in the same reality we do. I have got to get this book. Thanks.
avatar
Guest
Guest


Back to top Go down

Normal Re: Profile of a liar

Post by charminglane on Mon Dec 28, 2009 6:09 pm

I read it, too. Great book report, Wildflower! :study:

Scott's mother had a LOT of problems. She makes Cindy look good.
avatar
charminglane

Join date : 2009-05-28

Back to top Go down

Normal Re: Profile of a liar

Post by TerryRose on Mon Dec 28, 2009 8:19 pm

I saw part of an interview with Alan Alda (star of MASH who just wrote a book about his life) the other day by Joyce Behar. I was amazed when I heard he had an insane psychopathic mother who acted so throughout his entire childhood and attacked his father with a knife when he was little. It is my understanding that he has been married to the same woman for a long, long time and appears to "have it all together" himself. So I would say, not all comes from upbringing in the home, but, as LM has written earlier, there are many other reasons why someone turns out to be a sociopath or psychopath. I don't think even those in the field truly understand what goes wrong with these creatures and makes them what they are.
avatar
TerryRose

Join date : 2009-05-31

Back to top Go down

Normal Re: Profile of a liar

Post by Wrapitup on Mon Dec 28, 2009 11:20 pm

Great subject here. So is it environment or genetics or both? Are some people so chemically imbalanced that they are evil from day one as a newborn?

_________________
Prayers for our little HaLeigh Cummings, wherever she may be!!

Nine-tenths of wisdom is appreciation. Go find somebody’s hand and squeeze it, while there’s time.
-- Dale Dauten--

Thank you RAINE for all you ARE!! I will ALWAYS hold you in my Heart!!
avatar
Wrapitup
Founder
Founder

Join date : 2009-05-28

http://victimsheartland.forumotion.com/forum.htm

Back to top Go down

Normal Re: Profile of a liar

Post by Guest on Tue Dec 29, 2009 5:39 am

No all babies are born innocent. It is both. The genetic disposition has to be there. Environment, and life experience is the rest of it. There are signs when a person has a chemical imbalance in their brain. Since most of these illness have a genetic disposition that means at least one parent has the same and should recognize when to get their child help. Not live in denial but actually accept it and do something about it.
avatar
Guest
Guest


Back to top Go down

Normal Re: Profile of a liar

Post by charminglane on Tue Dec 29, 2009 11:02 am

Taking meds helps, too. However, as soon as they feel better they usually go off the medication and really dip down.
avatar
charminglane

Join date : 2009-05-28

Back to top Go down

Normal Re: Profile of a liar

Post by Wrapitup on Tue Dec 29, 2009 1:39 pm

So, I wonder..did Casey need meds or is she just a selfish, spoiled killer??

_________________
Prayers for our little HaLeigh Cummings, wherever she may be!!

Nine-tenths of wisdom is appreciation. Go find somebody’s hand and squeeze it, while there’s time.
-- Dale Dauten--

Thank you RAINE for all you ARE!! I will ALWAYS hold you in my Heart!!
avatar
Wrapitup
Founder
Founder

Join date : 2009-05-28

http://victimsheartland.forumotion.com/forum.htm

Back to top Go down

Normal Re: Profile of a liar

Post by charminglane on Tue Dec 29, 2009 2:03 pm

I think she needed meds. Didn't take them routinely because of having to admit she had no insurance/job to pay for them. Beer was more important.

However, I also believe she is a skanky cold bitch.
avatar
charminglane

Join date : 2009-05-28

Back to top Go down

Normal Re: Profile of a liar

Post by laga on Tue Dec 29, 2009 2:10 pm

I thought we read she was never in treatment for any "disorder". ??? I think your last sentence is right on the money, Charming, "a skanky cold bitch" among other things.
avatar
laga

Join date : 2009-05-29

Back to top Go down

Normal Re: Profile of a liar

Post by Guest on Tue Dec 29, 2009 2:20 pm

Only thing worse than a liar is a thief and she is both. Medication is not a cure all. It takes behavior modification and counseling too.
avatar
Guest
Guest


Back to top Go down

Normal Re: Profile of a liar

Post by Wrapitup on Tue Dec 29, 2009 2:28 pm

I agree. So, if a baby is born innocent (which I completely agree with) then HOW does an innocent baby become a cold, selfish killer?

This, I will never figure out.

_________________
Prayers for our little HaLeigh Cummings, wherever she may be!!

Nine-tenths of wisdom is appreciation. Go find somebody’s hand and squeeze it, while there’s time.
-- Dale Dauten--

Thank you RAINE for all you ARE!! I will ALWAYS hold you in my Heart!!
avatar
Wrapitup
Founder
Founder

Join date : 2009-05-28

http://victimsheartland.forumotion.com/forum.htm

Back to top Go down

Normal Re: Profile of a liar

Post by artgal16 on Tue Dec 29, 2009 2:46 pm

Many sociopathic women have sexual abuse in their past, however, it doesnt seem to be the case with
Casey as far as we know. Many children who are moved and shuffled from place to place from a young age also have shown to have sociopathic tendencies but again, its a factor sometimes, but not all the time.
Casey Anthony has some very typical traits of sociopathy one of them being the ability to exude a warm side to people. She had the good opinion of most of her friends, even though they all admitted they knew she was a liar. This is part of their "charm"
and its very interesting as its definitely superficial.
Underneath is a coldness that keeps them from really feeling anything for anyone thereby not having a conscience that would keep them from putting their schemes into play. They dont feel the same way we do. Also interesting is that there is no cure for sociopaths, but they do seem to get better as they get older. I dont think this means they grow a conscience, I just think as they get older the "charm" has worn thin and people dont fall for their plots as easily so they just run out of steam. You can get away with a lot when you are young and attractive, but not so much later as you age and your sins show on your face.
avatar
artgal16

Join date : 2009-06-09

Back to top Go down

Normal Re: Profile of a liar

Post by Guest on Tue Dec 29, 2009 3:16 pm

If Ablow did a book on Casey, he would find out a great deal about both Cindy and George's childhoods and what shaped them.

Here is a much better and much more detailed book report of the book about Scott Peterson

and an excerpt from the book report.....

For this book Ablow conducted an extensive investigation, interviewing members of the Peterson family and extended family, friends and acquaintances, which helped put much of their history into a clinical form for analysis. Ablow even created a website dedicated to learning about early traumas in Scott's life and reading and watching everything he could find about him. He says: "I am convinced that Laci and Conner lost their lives to a psychological 'perfect storm' that began gathering over the Peterson family over five decades ago and reached hurricane strength in the psyche of Scott Peterson. The road to the 2002 murders of a young woman full of life and the innocent child she carried" was pre-ordained when, just before Christmas in December 1945, his maternal grandfather was murdered. To bolster his theories, Ablow goes into detail about that killing and how it and its ramifications affected Scott's mother, Jackie. He writes of those events and believes the force of that moment in time became the genesis for every event that twisted Scott into a sociopath.

Here is a link to the book report.

http://www.bookreporter.com/reviews2/0312352050.asp

and it is a good read and does mention that in the controversy as to whether it is nurture or nature that causes a sociopath, Ablow clearly leans toward the nuture side of the argument.

I believe as someone said earlier on this thread that both influence.
avatar
Guest
Guest


Back to top Go down

Normal Re: Profile of a liar

Post by artgal16 on Tue Dec 29, 2009 3:28 pm

That article was extremely interesting. I had no idea
about Peterson's mother's early life. There are many aspects here of Scott Petersons behavior that remind me of Susan Powell's husband and to some extent
Casey as well as when we first saw her jail house
videos when speaking to her parents.
avatar
artgal16

Join date : 2009-06-09

Back to top Go down

Normal Re: Profile of a liar

Post by Guest on Tue Dec 29, 2009 4:28 pm

Yes, whether one leans to the "nurture" side of the controversy regarding what causes a sociopath or not, Ablow certainly did his homework regarding Scott's family dyanamics and presented a lot of information and some strong arguments for how influential the "nuturing" aspect can be.
avatar
Guest
Guest


Back to top Go down

Normal Re: Profile of a liar

Post by charminglane on Tue Dec 29, 2009 4:45 pm

So, the nurture side of Casey, to me, is defective in the mothering of Cindy, the narcissist.
Casey was born innocent. The environment in her home and the family she was dealt all lead to her becoming a sociopath.
Give her an inch-she'll take 867 miles, and then some.
avatar
charminglane

Join date : 2009-05-28

Back to top Go down

Normal Re: Profile of a liar

Post by Marica on Tue Dec 29, 2009 4:57 pm

Here I go again with a personal experience. Sorry if these annoy people. I knew a couple years ago, who both lied when it suited their needs. They had three children, two girls and a little boy who was autistic. The parents were more inclined to pay attention to the little boy, and In My Opinion, the girls began making up stories to get the attention of their parents. This behavior went on though out their lives. The oldest of the girls was arrested on child pornography charges and is serving a quite long sentence. She was a part of a very large number of people involved in a Child-Porn Sting Nets International Group
read here: [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]

Some children learn to lie because their parents lie, as these children did, but they also lied for attention. Both were very good at making up stories that brought them attention, causing people to feel sorry for them.
avatar
Marica

Join date : 2009-07-23

Back to top Go down

Normal Re: Profile of a liar

Post by charminglane on Tue Dec 29, 2009 5:10 pm

I agree with that Marica.
Ashamed to admit that I lied a lot when I was young so my Dad(who was away most of the time) would pay attention to me. Bad attention at least was some attention.

And no, your personal stories in no way offend. How else will we see things in other ways?
avatar
charminglane

Join date : 2009-05-28

Back to top Go down

Normal Re: Profile of a liar

Post by Guest on Tue Dec 29, 2009 5:17 pm

I agree also Marica and thank you for sharing and providing a link as well!

It is certain that Casey has a desperate, desperate need for constant attention and certainly possible that she did enjoy negative attention which considering the dysfunctional marriage of George and Cindy may have in fact been the only kind of attention she really ever got.

I actually posted a comment on Ablow's website at one point and told him I hope he does a book on Casey Anthony like the one he did on Scott Peterson.

Who knows what went wrong with Cindy. Her mother seems so sane, but really something is not right with that woman (Cindy)imo. Something had to go wrong somewhere and George's family history (aside from his bi-polar sister) would certainly be interesting.
avatar
Guest
Guest


Back to top Go down

Normal Re: Profile of a liar

Post by artgal16 on Tue Dec 29, 2009 5:22 pm

Cindy is just plain jealous - thats her problem. I dont know why but some women are just born jealous.
It seems to me that her wanting george to quit the force and go into the family car business was motivated by jealousy of her sister-in-law. It didnt work out and George, who was probably suited for LE has never been able to really provide for his family since then. I think he probably is the type of person who garners self esteem from his job. Cindy has belittled George for not being able to support the family in many ways. Its clear from what we have read that Cindy has been the basic breadwinner for a long time and she resented it. How this all plays out exactly I dont know, but somehow this affected Casey quite a bit.
avatar
artgal16

Join date : 2009-06-09

Back to top Go down

Normal Re: Profile of a liar

Post by charminglane on Tue Dec 29, 2009 6:06 pm

If George and Cindy were constantly fighting, or Cindy just eternally puts George down, Casey might have made everything appear rosy just to keep the peace and eventually believed her own lies.
avatar
charminglane

Join date : 2009-05-28

Back to top Go down

Normal Re: Profile of a liar

Post by Wrapitup on Tue Dec 29, 2009 6:08 pm

So, in essence - you all are saying nurture/environment/parents are what made her the way she is. I agree with this. In her case, I do NOT think she was born psychotic.

_________________
Prayers for our little HaLeigh Cummings, wherever she may be!!

Nine-tenths of wisdom is appreciation. Go find somebody’s hand and squeeze it, while there’s time.
-- Dale Dauten--

Thank you RAINE for all you ARE!! I will ALWAYS hold you in my Heart!!
avatar
Wrapitup
Founder
Founder

Join date : 2009-05-28

http://victimsheartland.forumotion.com/forum.htm

Back to top Go down

Normal Re: Profile of a liar

Post by Marica on Tue Dec 29, 2009 6:32 pm

artgal16: Your comment about Cindy being (1) Jealous. Maybe, but to me she is one of those people whom I see as a HUB type personality. She wants/insists, on being the central figure of the family.
(2) As for her being basic breadwinner & resenting it. It seems to me she thrives on this. Again she is NUMBER 1. Although she may complain about this, I see her using this as leverage on her family, and also as a "POOR CINDY" ploy. She no doubt feeds off of sympathetic friends and associates because she is THE ONE who MUST support the worthless husband, the daughter and grand child... and GOD only knows how thes people saw Lee in this picture. I may be all wrong on this, but I KNOW a cindy type personality and the behaviors are so similar.
avatar
Marica

Join date : 2009-07-23

Back to top Go down

Normal Re: Profile of a liar

Post by Sponsored content


Sponsored content


Back to top Go down

View previous topic View next topic Back to top


 
Permissions in this forum:
You cannot reply to topics in this forum