Re: Autopsy Report Results - Per Wrap: Autopsy results on this thread ONLY please! Comments & Discussions Welcomed!!

[Guest]

..And I, along with a lot of you others, feel sick. Another case for me about "be careful what you ask for"...
I did want to know if there was proof she had been there the whole time; some of the rest, I could have done without. It's pretty cut and dry. And extremely heartwrenching.
Who, WHO, could do something like this?

[mommyof3kids]

Who, WHO, could do something like this?

She sitting in jail eating candy and stroking her flat greasy dark brown hair

[Guest]

lovemy, I've looked and looked. I can't find anything about the heart sticker. Could it be because this autopsy is only about the skeletal remains, etc, and the heart sticker/residue would not be considered part of the autopsy, rather part of discovery?
I mean, they told about the duct tape itself, but nothing about that duct tape except the position of it.
Maybe I overlooked it. Kinda hard to read with tears blurring up your eyes. :(

[Wrapitup]

Lovemysam said:no mention of heart residue?

Not from what I read. Is this the complete report, or are they downloading in stages? Does anyone know?

No internal organs at all. Sad.

Heart sticker?

Got it. Thought Mimi was talking about the actual heart. Heat sticker was addressed in other docs as it was NOT on the duct tape but found seperately, so it has no bearing on the actual skeletal autopsy.

[mommyof3kids]

lovemysam Today at 1:44 pm


Wrapitup wrote:
unleashthelawyers wrote:
Lovemysam said:no mention of heart residue?

Not from what I read. Is this the complete report, or are they downloading in stages? Does anyone know?
No internal organs at all. Sad.
Heart sticker?

I stopped reading it for a bit... did it say anything about the heart sticker??

[cherylz]

Hi Mommyof3, With just bones there is no way to know if she drowned-you would need soft tissue and the lungs-I would think. So, so sad. If she did die slowly in the trunk-that for me would be the worst way to go. We know little Caylee suffered from separation anxiety.

[Juanita]

Lovemysam said:no mention of heart residue?

Not from what I read. Is this the complete report, or are they downloading in stages? Does anyone know?

No internal organs at all. Sad.

Heart sticker?

the fbi analysis of the tape is in a seperate report, there the identify the type of tape and the heart imprint. also any other objects found at the scene are not listed in this autopsy, this is only focused on the remains and items directly attached or associated with the remains

[Guest]

so once the autopsy was done, the tape would've been bagged/tagged/sent off for prints/further testing, right?

[Guest]

Bare with me a little bit..this might be hard for some to read, if you havent read through all of the report yet. You've been warned.

""therefore, it would be expected that the trunk was dragged away from the primary decompositional site by animals when the bones of the trunk and femoral diaphyses were still articulated or held together by soft tissues during the early stages of decomposition"

So my question is this...the trunk of the body insinuates that the head at that point was already detached from the trunk. I've always heard the trunk of the human body being from the chest down.

Morbid question, but am i correct in my assumption? And if the body was still in its early stages and everything was still connected, that would mean the head would have had to have been either loose enough to detach from the trunk that easily, or already detached.

And suddenly im reminded of those searches on casey's computer for broken necks.

somebody please correct me if im wrong.

[Wrapitup]

Bare with me a little bit..this might be hard for some to read, if you havent read through all of the report yet. You've been warned.

""therefore, it would be expected that the trunk was dragged away from the primary decompositional site by animals when the bones of the trunk and femoral diaphyses were still articulated or held together by soft tissues during the early stages of decomposition"

So my question is this...the trunk of the body insinuates that the head at that point was already detached from the trunk. I've always heard the trunk of the human body being from the chest down.

Morbid question, but am i correct in my assumption? And if the body was still in its early stages and everything was still connected, that would mean the head would have had to have been either loose enough to detach from the trunk that easily, or already detached.

And suddenly im reminded of those searches on casey's computer for broken necks.
If she had broken her neck, it would have shown in the autopsy. Due to human decomp and animals tearing at her body, that is why the skull was dislocated from the body.

somebody please correct me if im wrong.

Don't know why my post did not show the first time.

Due to human decomp and animals tearing at the body, the head/skull became detached from the rest of the skeleton. No sign of neck breaking in the autopsy.

[Guest]

don't forget the chloroform factor.

I have not forgot about the chloroform factor. I knew from early on that it is air soluble and that none would be found. I hope Caylee was asleep but there is no proof of that for the jury. Only the cold hard scientific facts. Poor little Caylee. For my daughter Sassy to give up on a possible accident theory means there is no hope for KC. My daughter is her peer. Sassy has come a long way from when I first started discussing this case with her. She still thinks I am somewhat obsessed but seems to understand it better. I just want to get out of here and pick Katie up, hold and show her how much I love her. I need a Katie hug. She hates it when I cry and she will be seeing me cry tonight.

[Guest]

head and neck aren't connected by much anyway, so figure in speedy decomp of heat and of child.

[Guest]

Bare with me a little bit..this might be hard for some to read, if you havent read through all of the report yet. You've been warned.

""therefore, it would be expected that the trunk was dragged away from the primary decompositional site by animals when the bones of the trunk and femoral diaphyses were still articulated or held together by soft tissues during the early stages of decomposition"

So my question is this...the trunk of the body insinuates that the head at that point was already detached from the trunk. I've always heard the trunk of the human body being from the chest down.

Morbid question, but am i correct in my assumption? And if the body was still in its early stages and everything was still connected, that would mean the head would have had to have been either loose enough to detach from the trunk that easily, or already detached.

And suddenly im reminded of those searches on casey's computer for broken necks.
If she had broken her neck, it would have shown in the autopsy. Due to human decomp and animals tearing at her body, that is why the skull was dislocated from the body.

somebody please correct me if im wrong.

I think if her neck had been broken it would have showed up in the examination. Plus if KC had broke Caylee's neck there would have been no point in layers of duct tape over her mouth correct? Anyone here know the anatomy of a human well enough to know if they are talking about the duct tape stretching over little Caylee's nose?

[Guest]

Personally im thankful that i was wrong, then.

[cherylz]

Wrap, the upper jaw (think of your upper teeth-the bone that your teeth are inserted in) runs so close to the nostrils, but ther was no mention if the tape covered the nose. IDK-that perpleses me-there is not much there btwn the nostrils and upper jaw bone.

[Juanita]

i think it would be completely reasonable to assume the duct tape was meant to either suffocate or quiet a live child. i think the medical examiner needs to grow a pair.

[ladyjustice37]

dumb question here, but I need some help.

okay , duct tape around nose and mouth area, I understand but then it reads it remained in place because it was adhered to the hair. How exactly was this tape placed? There is not hair on the nose and mouth. Did it wrap from one side of the head to the other, all the way around. Did little Caylee's hair get pullled down over her face before the duct tape was attached?

Anyone help? Thanks.

[Wrapitup]

i think it would be completely reasonable to assume the duct tape was meant to either suffocate or quiet a live child. i think the medical examiner needs to grow a pair.

I think her nose was not duct taped and I feel it was meant to keep her quiet and not suffocate her. She prolly died in a hot trunk.

"Grow a Pair"?? Don't get that as I think the world of Dr. G. Please splain this to me. :lol!:

[Wrapitup]

dumb question here, but I need some help.

okay , duct tape around nose and mouth area, I understand but then it reads it remained in place because it was adhered to the hair. How exactly was this tape placed? There is not hair on the nose and mouth. Did it wrap from one side of the head to the other, all the way around. Did little Caylee's hair get pullled down over her face before the duct tape was attached?

Anyone help? Thanks.

Not sure the extent of duct tape - not sure if it was wrapped completely around her head or just over her mouth, but Cayee's hair was long so her hair got caught in the duct tape. I am certain this will be discussed in length at trial.

[ladyjustice37]

I heard someone mention 'somewhere' that maybe the tape could have been used to prevent liquids from coming out of her mouth (after she died). AGAIN - these are not my thoughts.

Did it say layers of tape? I find that odd. We all know duct tape, 1 piece will take care of it, which brings me to the next question and I am going to read---- does it actually state duct tape? Yes, i read , it does say duct tape.

[Guest]

I'm gonna have to take a breather. I did hear on HLN that this would be discussed on NG tonight, so maybe any questions will be answered by the "experts"?

[Wrapitup]

I'm gonna have to take a breather. I did hear on HLN that this would be discussed on NG tonight, so maybe any questions will be answered by the "experts"?

Guess Nancy had to stop for a few on her vaca and call in someone to host her show tonight, as she was going to have a tape of all of Cindy's b.s.!!

[Guest]

Hopefully Mike Brooks will be sitting in for her; he's a good expert. Think I've heard all I can take for right now.
I do have a question about the duct tape...was it said (my eyes) that it covered the nose area? I do think it said something about "layers" of duct tape? Would this mean she kept wrapping it around and around, like many times, around her face area?

[Juanita]

well i read the report and it said nothing about the positioning of the tape under or over the nose, so we cannot conclude this.

"grow a pair" meaning, the duct tape is extremely informative. in Dr. Gs experience and combined experience from experts, have they ever come across a situation where duct tape was placed over the mouth of a dead body? therefore the most likely scenario was that this was placed on her while alive, and for what purpose?

i know you are assuming this is to keep fluids from leaking out of her mouth, but do you honestly believe that?

Dr. G is being very conservative by not concluding that the duct tape was related to her cause of death. and so i say "grow a pair"

;)

[ladyjustice37]

page 6453, page 3 of 13,
'A hair matt was noted on the base of the skull and grayish colored tape was noted covering the mouth and nasal aperture areas.'

This is where I got info on nose and mouth.

[Guest]

Thanks all.
I was just wondering. Conway said that the Ants had not seen the autopsy before. Do you believe this? I know when my baby sister died at 21, we received her autopsy from Duke through the mail about a month after she died.
So are we really to believe the Ants had not seen this autopsy?

[Guest]

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]

I don't know if this is exactly what the other channel is releasing, but it says something about the FBI report/autopsy also.

[Juanita]

page 6453, page 3 of 13,
'A hair matt was noted on the base of the skull and grayish colored tape was noted covering the mouth and nasal aperture areas.'

This is where I got info on nose and mouth.

ok there you go, it was covering the nose. however there is no soft tissue so how do we know it was stuck over the nose or it just shifted there? i suppose this will be debated in court. i do believe regardless of the nose or not, casey has NO accident defense. no reasonable human would duct tape her childs mouth COVERING HAIR. duct tape is extremly sticky, it would have tore her skin had it been pulled off.

[ladyjustice37]

J, I understand what you are saying. I have questioned the soft tissue to and the shifting. Mystery to me as to why their were layers of tape, gosh as you say duct tape is so sticky why do we need to use more than 1 layer? one for the courtroom drama I would say.

[Juanita]

it could be that the first peice of tape did not completey cover her mouth and a second peice was needed. i dont remember reading that the tape went completely around the skull.

this is horrible, i cant imagine anyone doing this to a child

[ladyjustice37]

I do not think it read that it went completely around the skull either. I am just curious as to how it was around the front areas and had hair in it. Of course shifting would account for this.

[Juanita]

well its one thing for the hair to be surrounded by tape, another if the hair was stuck to the end of the tape, you know at the tear site. im sure its impossible to tape a childs mouth without getting some hair stuck to it, so i dont think the hair stuck after death, i think before. more than one peice, that really is disturbing and very telling, it certainly rules out that caylee didnt put it over her mouth on her own!!!

[Guest]

I am thinking about something weird.
Remember the "flurry" of calls KC made the afternoon of the 16th?
Everyone speculated something had happened and she was trying to reach someone but no one would answer?
I wonder if she knew she was to go to tonys later, which she did, and wanted CA to watch Caylee for her. When she couldn't get anyone to answer,(because they were trying to teach her a lesson?) maybe this is when she placed the duct tape on caylee to "keep her quiet", put her in the trunk so she could keep her date with Tony?
Just a fleeting thought. Maybe on the night before (the big fight) CA had told KC she would NOT babysit for caylee like she had been doing, and KC would have to take responsibility. Then tony wanted her to go rent movies, KC couldn't get anyone to answer, so she duct tapes Caylee, throws her in the trunk and keeps her plan with Tony??
There are just so many things that could have happened that afternoon. This could just be one of them. She knew caylee would die in that heat in the trunk, if she wasn't already dead.

:(

[Juanita]

"they dont want the vision that comes from the report and the speculation that comes from that"

interviewer says how does that change the vision that was already there when we heard of the duct tape initially?

"it renews it"

i bet the judge was like, ok lets move on already!

[ladyjustice37]

Whew, I use to try to think in my heart and give KC the benefit of the doubt, but after reading about all these new cases of women and their children, I am beginning to believe that anything can happen. I just do not understand how a mother can do something to their child. I only have a dog and the worst thing I have ever done to him, 1. scold because I am afraid he will get hurt 2.
After I have had a couple of drinks I have been known to put a t-shirt on him to make him look funny.

I just don't get it.

[Wrapitup]

Whew, I use to try to think in my heart and give KC the benefit of the doubt, but after reading about all these new cases of women and their children, I am beginning to believe that anything can happen. I just do not understand how a mother can do something to their child. I only have a dog and the worst thing I have ever done to him, 1. scold because I am afraid he will get hurt 2.
After I have had a couple of drinks I have been known to put a t-shirt on him to make him look funny.

I just don't get it.

That is a good thing, LadyJustice!!

[Juanita]

I am thinking about something weird.
Remember the "flurry" of calls KC made the afternoon of the 16th?
Everyone speculated something had happened and she was trying to reach someone but no one would answer?
I wonder if she knew she was to go to tonys later, which she did, and wanted CA to watch Caylee for her. When she couldn't get anyone to answer,(because they were trying to teach her a lesson?) maybe this is when she placed the duct tape on caylee to "keep her quiet", put her in the trunk so she could keep her date with Tony?
Just a fleeting thought. Maybe on the night before (the big fight) CA had told KC she would NOT babysit for caylee like she had been doing, and KC would have to take responsibility. Then tony wanted her to go rent movies, KC couldn't get anyone to answer, so she duct tapes Caylee, throws her in the trunk and keeps her plan with Tony??
There are just so many things that could have happened that afternoon. This could just be one of them. She knew caylee would die in that heat in the trunk, if she wasn't already dead.

:(

a VERY likely scenario, however, i wouldnt give casey credit for knowing anything. we dont know what time caylee died, but we only know what time casey drove to tonys and went to vid store. 6:30 is evening but the sun is still high in june, however its still evening, dinner time, and she could have parked it in the shade. however, if this is true she obviously planned to keep caylee there all night. why would she go retrieve her after the movie, why not just sleep with tony and just forget about her, anyway it would be dark by then and she was probably asleep. bottom line, proven by caseys actions in the following month SHE DID NOT CARE about caylees welfare. evidence shows a small human decomposed in her trunk, evidence shows a flurry of calls and casey WITHOUT caylee, evidence shows she lied about zanny, evidence shows she did not report her daughter missing. reasonable conclusion: casey is responsible for caylee's death.

[mommyof3kids]

unleashthelawyers Today at 3:24 pm


I am thinking about something weird.
Remember the "flurry" of calls KC made the afternoon of the 16th?
Everyone speculated something had happened and she was trying to reach someone but no one would answer?
I wonder if she knew she was to go to tonys later, which she did, and wanted CA to watch Caylee for her. When she couldn't get anyone to answer,(because they were trying to teach her a lesson?) maybe this is when she placed the duct tape on caylee to "keep her quiet", put her in the trunk so she could keep her date with Tony?
Just a fleeting thought. Maybe on the night before (the big fight) CA had told KC she would NOT babysit for caylee like she had been doing, and KC would have to take responsibility. Then tony wanted her to go rent movies, KC couldn't get anyone to answer, so she duct tapes Caylee, throws her in the trunk and keeps her plan with Tony??
There are just so many things that could have happened that afternoon. This could just be one of them. She knew caylee would die in that heat in the trunk, if she wasn't already dead.

Mimi, You make a VERY good point here, as sad as it may be

Biatch wouldn't have wanted to take CL with her to watch movies, because she wanted to spend quality time with Tony. Even though I am sure Tony would have been ok with CL being there!!

AND YES, I am from here on out calling Momster "Biatch" because that is what she is!

[Juanita]

no no no caseys quality time with tony involved X rated activities. there is no way caylee would have been welcomed there. remember their text exchanges to each other?

[mommyof3kids]

I know everyone has been discussing whether or not the tape was in fact covering CL's nose, so I googled Nasal Aperture and this is what I got:

ap·er·ture (pr-chr)
n.
1. An opening, such as a hole, gap, or slit.
2. A usually adjustable opening in an optical instrument, such as a microscope, a camera, or a telescope, that limits the amount of light passing through a lens or onto a mirror.
3. The diameter of such an opening.
4. The diameter of the objective of a telescope or microscope.

I think it is safe to say that the tape was prbobably coving the nostrels.

[Guest]

I think I just saw the name of someone I have really missed lately...online now. Bombshell, are you here?
Sure have missed you!

[cherylz]

If the duct tape covered the nose, the soft tissue and cartilage of the nose would eventually go away and you would be left w/ a lge nasal opening. Duct tape wouldn't shift it would just fall down into place as that was happening. OMG I don't even believe I am writing this, just trying to understand I guess. I didn't read that about the nasal opening, Ladyjustice. Thank you, I will have to go back. The hair being stuck, makes sense, since Caylee wasn't sedated, I am sure she struggled and fought--a lot. This to me makes it all so much worse. I think she put her in there after the fight-Caylee was prob. upset and crying. Maybe the flurry of calls was when she found her the next day. I know there are theories Re: them sleeping at the Ant's after the fight, but I just see the lunatic leaving w/ Caylee in a huff-that is almost human nature.

[Wrapitup]

I think I just saw the name of someone I have really missed lately...online now. Bombshell, are you here?
Sure have missed you!

Bomb has been on for about an hour now, get your head out of the clouds, woman!!!

[CritterFan1]

unleashedthelawyers, Bombshell is in an Rv park with a problem getting a good wireless connection. She is a.o.k. I am glad to say. Sorry I missed her earlier.

[cherylz]

You know, I just had the most horrible vision--all that was left showing on her face w/ that tape on were those beautiful doe-like eyes-terrified eyes, pleading for mercy. I am sorry, but I can't share my feelings w/ anyone here, my husband is upset--b/c I need to put together my 5 yo's Birthday party for tom. It is so hard-I feel as though this was a personal loss. :(

[Guest]

Wrap said: Bomb has been on for about an hour now, get your head out of the clouds, woman!!!

Out of the "clouds"?? :lol!:
Remember you're talking to someone who thought YESTERDAY was Friday?

[Guest]

Juanita said: no no no caseys quality time with tony involved X rated activities. there is no way caylee would have been welcomed there. remember their text exchanges to each other?

I agree that Tony would not have wanted caylee there if they had plans to do the "dirty" that night, after watching movies, getting high, etc. He made that very clear to KC...that he didn't want caylee there when that kind of stuff was going on.
So who's to say that tony wanted her to come really bad and she wanted to go really bad, but had no sitter, everyone refused her calls, so she just "ductaped" caylee, threw her in the trunk, went to tonys, and the rest is history. We've always assumed Caylee WAS in that trunk the night they went to blockbusters to rent movies. I just wonder how LONG caylee had been in that trunk?

[Juanita]

yup mimi, a very likely scenario.

and if she did get high or drunk, no way she would go check on her in a few hours, no way she would check on her first thing in the morning before the sun hit the car, no way caylee would have survived in the trunk, she would have run out of oxygen i think.

[Wrapitup]

HLN is covering today's events w/live commentary NOW

[mommyof3kids]

Juanita said: no no no caseys quality time with tony involved X rated activities. there is no way caylee would have been welcomed there. remember their text exchanges to each other?

I agree that Tony would not have wanted caylee there if they had plans to do the "dirty" that night, after watching movies, getting high, etc. He made that very clear to KC...that he didn't want caylee there when that kind of stuff was going on.
So who's to say that tony wanted her to come really bad and she wanted to go really bad, but had no sitter, everyone refused her calls, so she just "ductaped" caylee, threw her in the trunk, went to tonys, and the rest is history. We've always assumed Caylee WAS in that trunk the night they went to blockbusters to rent movies. I just wonder how LONG caylee had been in that trunk?

You guys are prob right about them just wanting to do the Nasty... If only Tony knew that CL was in that trunk! I bet he has nightmares knowing what he knows now.

[adelacruz]

It is so hard-I feel as though this was a personal loss.

think we all feel like that.. i'm so sad, can't work, only just wander around online... i just wonna go home and hug my babies!

You guys are prob right about them just wanting to do the Nasty... If only Tony knew that CL was in that trunk! I bet he has nightmares knowing what he knows now.

sux... all that for sex! what a nasty selfish slut!!!

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