Lisa Irwin, still missing in Kansas City, MO

That is a very good point about them releasing that particular tip- I never thought of that. But still if they have a credit card, they can find them with one phone call - unless the card was stolen!

RCPD: Sighting not the missing KC baby

October 18, 2011 - 09:20pm
RCPD: Sighting not the missing KC baby
Riley County Police Department investigated the sighting of the 10-month-old Kansas City, Mo., child at a Manhattan deli on Tuesday.

Police received a report that a child with a similar appearance to Lisa Irwin, the missing child, may have been sighted, Capt. Kurt Moldrup, police public information officer, said in a statement.

Riley County police worked through the evening and determined the child seen was not the child missing from her Kansas City, Mo., home, Moldrup said.

During the investigation, Kansas City Police investigators were notified of the possible sighting and were also notified when Riley County police confirmed the child was not the missing toddler.

"Although this report did not lead to the discovery of the missing child, the Riley County police encourages citizens to continue to be vigilant and to report any and all suspicious or criminal behavior they observe," Moldrup said.

Parents Deborah Bradley and Jeremy Irwin reported the child missing on Oct. 4 after the father returned from working a night shift and found the front door to his home unlocked, the house lights on, a window tampered with, and the baby gone.

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I so wanted this to be her!!!

Police will return to the home where baby Lisa Irwin disappeared from 15 days ago. The family has been staying with other family members at a different residence. On Tuesday, police obtained a search warrant and plan to take a second look at Deborah Bradley and Jeremy Irwin's home. Officers didn't say when that search will happen, but it's likely it will happen on Wednedway.

Officers shut down an area near North Brighton Avenue and 34th Terrace on Tuesday afternoon. Police say they developed a lead which led them close to the family's home, but it didn't pan out. Police also closed the sky off to media helicopters during the search on Tuesday.

Police used a weed whacker and a generator as well as a large brown bag usually used for evidence collection.

"It maybe was promising for a minute," said Sgt. Steve Young with KCPD. "It was a lead we developed that didn't pan out."

If you have any information on Lisa Irwin's whereabouts call the TIPS Hotline at (816) 474-TIPS.

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Officers didn't say when that search will happen, but it's likely it will happen on Wednedway.

What day does Wednedway come after??

BJ wrote:

Officers didn't say when that search will happen, but it's likely it will happen on Wednedway.

What day does Wednedway come after??

Tuedway, of course....

I hope they find something to lead to the truth....

Irwin Parents Leave Home With Local Defense Attorney

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Honestly I am losing hope in finding this baby. Where oh where could she be.

Last evening I watched a bit of Extreme Couponing. The baby girl the couple shopping was holding looked exactly like Baby Lisa.

I am sure there will be tons of sightings of children looking like her. $100,000 is a lot of moolah.

Maybe hubby and I will drive over to our local truck stop and drink some coffee... Never know.

FOX‘s Megyn Kelly has been a hero of the Hinky community’s collective heart since early in the Caylee Anthony case (and you all know what I’m talking about). Once again her awesome interviewing skills are reaping benefits in the Lisa Irwin case. For instance, she’s done more to reveal inconsistencies and outright unbelievable nonsense in Deborah Bradley’s story of events surrounding Lisa’s disappearance than Deborah could have ever done for us on her own, but I’m beginning to believe that’s just what Deborah wanted.

Aside from the fact that nothing that was originally told to us (and most likely Kansas City police trying to find little baby Lisa) can now be held to be “true”, and aside from the astounding revelation that Deborah Bradley thinks she’s just like all the other parents in the world (i.e. drinkers who drink until they “blackout” ), we’ve now learned that the KCPD did, in fact, reveal to Deborah Bradley that at 2:30 a.m. on October 4th, right smack in the middle of the time period Lisa disappeared, one of the missing cell phones (Deborah indicates HER cell phone, to be more precise), made a call at 2:30 a.m. – same time as a mysterious dumpster fire less than a 1/2 mile from the Irwin home.

As discussed yesterday, and discussed in another segment of the same 45 minute interview the parents of Lisa Irwin had with Megyn Kelly, police have been reported to have found “burnt clothing” in that dumpster and have returned to it several times collecting evidence, followed by multiple trips to the landfill where that dumpster’s contents were ultimately disposed. Deborah Bradley revealed that police had shown her “burnt clothing”. She then made a rather disturbing statement that she “hoped they weren’t real”…which is concerning to say the least.

Convenient that after that Deborah announces that the cell phones have “restricted service” and can’t make outgoing calls…I think I’ll wait until the KCPD tells me that’s true, if you don’t mind.

Deborah also stated they showed her a map with a ping and that they pitched a “scenario” involving her at some location. Deborah, did that scenario include you, a dumpster, baby clothes and a fire? You know, the dumpster you really don’t know much about and act like you only heard about second-hand but that you thought you heard it wasn’t connected to the case? You know, the one you didn’t tell Jeremy about?

I think you didn’t tell him something else, did you, Deborah? Because when Megyn Kelly asked you and Jeremy if they told you WHERE the cell phone ping at 2:30 am was Jeremy said NO and you said “they said it was nearby”. Hello? Debbie, we’re actually paying attention, you just revealed they SHOWED YOU THE MAP. You know damned well and good where that ping was stated to be from by the detectives. You were shown! Where was it, Debbie?

I do take issue with something that was said between Megyn Kelly and her panel of experts discussing this case. It was asked (and I paraphrase): “are we to believe this woman is a criminal mastermind who in a drunken state in the middle of the night could dispose of her child’s body and leave no evidence?”

Let’s get something straight – in case some of you haven’t been paying attention for the last 3 years – IT DOESN’T TAKE A MASTERMIND TO CONCEAL A CHILD’S BODY. Casey Anthony was no “mastermind”. The egg-donor of little Lauryn Dickens, whose body has STILL NOT BEEN FOUND, is no mastermind. Terri Horman is no mastermind…and neither is Debbie Bradley. Neither was Susan Smith or Cheyenne’s Wolf’s murdering “parents”.

It’s a simple recipe that even a worthless societal drop-out with no future, no motivation, no societal value, and no scruples can pull off…in fact, that appears to be the mixture of qualities required to “pull it off” so well. You kill your kid, either intentionally or by accident or neglect, you hide the body and bullshit your way along as far as you can get. For some worthless drop-outs, courtesy of random luck and a dozen idiots that can’t understand instructions, or the gravity of their duty, that gets you all the way to freedom. For the majority, not quite that far…. at least not for long.

The only thing that most of these people are masterminds at is….manipulation. Deborah Bradley is proving to be a master-manipulator in the use of the media. She is, by all indications, extraordinary at it.

Lisa Irwin has been missing 15 days. It’s been 10 days since the KCPD (who have apparently resolved themselves to finding this baby no matter what it takes) have been able to get useful information from either of Lisa’s parents without turning on the news programs in the morning and just getting a cup of coffee and listening. (I would like to note that KCTV5 states that the “last unrestricted conversation” police had with the parents was on October 6th – not the 8th. And please note what they state here “After that, Deborah Bradley and Jeremy Irwin sought legal counsel from a LOCAL lawyer.” So…whatever “discussion took place on October 8th” was AFTER they had lawyered up, and apparently not productive in the eyes of KCPD, and definitely not considered “unrestricted”. )

So, that’s how long it has been since the parents of Lisa have directly spoken with, in some useful manner we would hope (against mounting odds), the uniformed men and and women who are trying to find their baby. After the activity by investigators in the past 2 days, I am convinced that Megyn Kelly and other interviewers were the conduit for a whole new batch of information KCPD had never heard before.

Just as suddenly as Joe Tacopina, the high-priced suit from New York who has been “benefactored” to represent the poor pitiful parents of missing Lisa, swooped into Kansas City, he went jetting off again. This is the summary of his one-day visit to Kansas City: mic time… “look how honest my new wino client is?”, “…absolutely innocent”, “they are victims”, “no more interviews”…and then POOF and by the light of the silvery moon he was gone again. Up stepped lawyer #2 (or maybe Joe is #2 and this is #1, right? )…a yet unidentified local lawyer, reported to be a woman, arrived at the house where the Irwin’s have been staying since leaving their own home. This woman arrived some time around noon yesterday, stayed for a couple of hours and then it was reported the Irwin’s were seen leaving with her (some accounts state they got in a “government car” but I have not been able to confirm that).

Over on the “productive” side of this case, the KCPD blocked off an area around North Brighton Avenue and 34th Terrace. A 2-mile “no fly zone” was enforced for a period of time as up to 20 different officers and forensic specialists showed up…they even had dirt sifters…and search dogs. Though nothing came of this search, I find the language used by Captain Steve Young in reference to this activity interesting. He stated it was not from a “specific tip” and then he described it as “a lead we developed” from the investigation that led them back toward the Irwin home. This area HAS been searched before.

Speaking of the Irwin home, the KCPD are “going to the mattresses” (both in a Godfather-ish figurative sense and in a forensic literal sense)…they obtained a search warrant yesterday and they are planning to execute that warrant today. It allows them to enter the Irwin home and gather evidence. That same warrant prohibits the Irwins from entering that residence for the time being (they shouldn’t be upset about this, they already said they don’t want to live there anymore). A patrol car has been stationed at the house to ensure the Irwins don’t decide to misunderstand the situation.

There’s one more comment made by a commentator about this case that I’d like to comment on myself. Jeff Lanza, a retired FBI agent who spoke with NBC about how the media interviews are not working well for the parents because their stories keep changing, said,

On the one hand, they’re trying to keep the story in the news, but being interviewed on national TV by seasoned interviewers … you probably should be shying away from doing something like that. You’re trying to gain public support, and you could be detracting from public support.”

I’m sorry, Mr. Lanza, but I have not seen these parents try to keep the message of their missing baby in the news since the first couple of days after she was reported missing. That would be about the same time they stopped cooperating with law enforcement. I have not seen these parents speak of the importance of watching for their baby…I’ve only seen Deborah Bradley talking about herself. That’s all I’ve seen for about 10 days nows…Debbie talking about Debbie.

What I’ve seen is Debbie using the media to build her defense. That’s what I’ve seen.

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The above article is really spot on - especially the part about you dont have to be a genius to hide a childs body - where is Haleigh? Where Is Kyron? Where is Haley Dunn? Where is Aliayah - are these parents master criminals? No, they can be half-wits but a small childs body can be hidden and never found - we have to stop thinking this cant be done easily - it can and is done - almost every week we hear of it.

(CNN) -- Authorities have obtained a search warrant for the home where a missing 11-month-old Missouri girl was reportedly last seen, Kansas City police said Tuesday.

The warrant allows investigators to comb the house in the coming days and also bars the family of Lisa Irwin from returning home. A patrol car has been posted outside.

Lisa was reported missing at 4 a.m. October 4, after Lisa's father, Jeremy Irwin, came home from work to find the door unlocked, lights on and a window that had been tampered with.

Lisa's mother, Deborah Bradley, said she last saw Lisa at 6:40 p.m. the night before.

The developments came as a potentially promising lead in the case turned out to be a false alarm.
Missing baby's mom: I was drunk Missing baby family: No more interviews Family releases video of missing baby Fresh eyes in search for 'Baby Lisa'

The Riley County Police Department received a report Tuesday that "Baby Lisa" may have been sighted in Manhattan, Kansas -- more 100 miles west of Kansas City.

A baby with two "suspicious" looking women were reportedly seen in a local deli.

Authorities were able to "confirm that the child seen was not the child missing from Kansas City," police said.

Earlier in the week, Bradley said in an NBC interview she was drunk the night the infant disappeared and that she had last seen the baby about four hours earlier than initially reported.

Bradley told NBC she is afraid she will be arrested. Police have accused her of killing Lisa, she said, and told her that she failed a lie detector test.

"I was the last one with her," a tearful Bradley said in the interview. "And from judging on how the questioning went, that's kind of a fear that I have. And the main fear with that is, if they arrest me, people are going to stop looking for her. And then I'll never see her again, and I'll never know what happened."

Asked how much she had been drinking that night, Bradley said, "enough to be drunk."
But she rejected the notion that she could have harmed her daughter while under the influence of alcohol.

"No, no, no," she told NBC. "And if I thought there was a chance, I'd say it. No. No. I don't think alcohol changes a person enough to do something like that."

Asked whether he had questions about Bradley, Jeremy Irwin told NBC, "No. There's no question to be had there. I know who she is. I know the kind of mother she is."

Irwin said it's possible someone could have entered the house without Bradley hearing, as the couple's bedroom is on the opposite corner of the house from Lisa's room and Bradley sleeps with a fan at high speed.

Lisa is described as being 30 inches tall with blue eyes and blond hair, according to police. She weighs between 26 and 30 pounds and was last seen wearing purple shorts and a purple shirt with white kittens on it.

The missing girl has two bottom teeth and a "beauty mark" on her right outer thigh, police said. At the time of her disappearance, she had a cold with a cough.

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October 19, 2011 06:50 AM EDT

Elizabeth Smart made comments about the recent disappearance of 10-month-old baby Lisa Irwin. It seems that this former victim of abduction feels that the child is alive.

Look, it's great that Elizabeth Smart has found her voice after overcoming a life of captivity in the hands of predators. It's great that she survived, lived and moved on to become a correspondent for missing persons. However, as she even said herself, she could just be an "eternal optimist."

The fact of the matter remains; abductions in which a child is missing for over 48 hours very rarely ends in the child returning safely to their families. Elizabeth Smart isn't an expert on missing persons cases simply because she was one of the 800,000 children that go missing. Yes, these words may seem harsh, but they are the simple truths, the facts.

Baby Lisa Irwin vanished two weeks ago. Police reenacted the alleged child abduction, going off of the telltale signs of intrusion shared by the parents of the missing child. The investigation has, so far, pointed to the idea that nobody could have come in through the window to abduct a baby without waking someone. Of course, the new revelation that Debora Bradley was highly intoxicated that night could have lent to her not hearing anything.

This is not a popular opinion, but it must be said: Deborah Bradley was not being a responsible parent. She was the only adult in the home. She was supposed to be responsible for her 10-month-old infant and her other children while her fiance' was away at work. Instead of taking the responsible path of caring for her children, she chose to get so inebriated that she could've possibly "blacked out." She also claims to have been on the front porch with some friend that night, after shopping for her box-o-booze with her brother just hours before her daughter vanished. Who is this friend? Where is this friend? Have police interrogated this friend? What about the brother?

Look, this is not some ordinary child abduction. If this child was abducted by someone while the mother slept, it was due to the woman's blatant irresponsibility as a parent. In any story in the news that involves parental supervision and alcohol, it never ends well. It more often than not doesn't end in a missing child, but it always ends in the parent being charged with negligence and endangerment. When you're the only adult in the home, you do not get so intoxicated that you cannot tend to your parental duties.

Deborah Bradley shrugs off her drinking and says that after she puts her children to bed at night, she is entitled to her "grownup time." She admits to drinking frequently while mixing booze with her medication, used for anxiety or mental disorders. This has "bad parent" stamped all over it, and hopefully the police in Kansas City are more intelligent than they are letting on at the moment.

As for Elizabeth Smart, something seems like she hasn't necessarily been following this case.

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I just am ignoring Elizabeth Smarts comments as she knows nothing about this case. Those remnants of burned clothing and the cell phone ping are going to help put Debbie right where she belongs - in the slammer.

Of course, the new revelation that Debora Bradley was highly intoxicated that night could have lent to her not hearing anything.

There is no proof that Deborah Bradley blacked out that night or was drinking anything stronger than . Deborah might have lied about a sober evening being a drunken evening so that she had a good excuse for not knowing what went on in her house when Lisa "disappeared".
I know someone that woke up in her own bed one Sunday morning. Her car was in the driveway, she knew she had been at a party but had no idea how she or her car got home. She had blacked out and "lost" a few hours of her life! No sense asking her about those hours.....she wouldn't have a clue!

Investigators are inside the home of missing baby Lisa Irwin, whose parents say she was abducted two weeks ago.

Kansas City police spokesman Capt. Steve Young says investigators have a warrant to search the family's house again Wednesday.

Shortly after sunrise, FBI crime scene trucks pulled up and a phalanx of FBI agents and Kansas City police officers gathered at the property. Officers cordoned off about a half block perimeter
around the house, pushing back reporters and media trucks packing the street.

FBI spokeswoman Bridget Patton says the search is not based on any tip.

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Police to Execute Search Warrant at Baby Lisa’s Home

A Kansas City Police patrol car sat outside the home of missing baby Lisa Irwin’s parents overnight to watch over the property while detectives prepared to execute a search warrant that was obtained late Tuesday. A police spokesman said he expected some activity at the house on Wednesday morning.
Authorities have conducted previous searches of the home with the consent of the family, but the fact that they have now sought a warrant could be the latest sign of tension between police and the missing 10-month-old’s parents.

A police spokesman said earlier Tuesday that mother Deborah Bradley and father Jeremy Irwin have not sat down for an interview with investigators since October 8 and that there are still some questions detectives have that only the parents can answer. The couple’s attorney has maintained that they are being cooperative, but he has also criticized some of investigators’ tactics.

Police spent much of the afternoon Tuesday searching a wooded area near the Irwin home—an effort that prompted the FAA to initiate a no-fly zone over the site for several hours—but Capt. Steve Young told reporters that the lead they were pursuing there ultimately “didn’t pan out.”

NBC News reported Wednesday that the location had been searched three times before and that it was near a dumpster where firefighters responded to a fire hours before Lisa Irwin was reported missing on October 4. A Kansas City Fire Department spokesman confirmed that they did receive calls about a dumpster fire around 2:30 am that day, but nothing out of the ordinary was found when they put it out.

Deborah Bradley has said she last saw Lisa when she put her to bed in her crib around 6:40 pm on October 3, but she was gone when Jeremy Irwin got home from work around 4:00 am the next morning. Bradley recently acknowledged that she drank several glasses of wine that night. The parents said they believe someone snuck into the house through a window that appeared to have been tampered with and abducted Lisa.

Police in Manhattan, Kansas investigated a possible sighting of Lisa at a deli Tuesday afternoon when a witness reported seeing two women with a baby matching Lisa’s description who were acting suspiciously. In a press release Tuesday night, however, Riley County Police Capt. Kurt Moldrup announced that authorities were able to confirm that the baby was not Lisa.

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Again we ask the question - in an accidental death - why do the parents hide the body. In casey anthonys case I alwasy believed that she killed Caylee and it wasnt an accident. Kyron I felt died as the result of child abuse and Haley Dunn I felt was raped and killed by Sean. In this case I feel it was an accident but that Debbie felt that she had too much to lose if she reported it. I dont know what Jeremy's complicity in this whole thing is, but I feel that Debbie somehow is responsbile for Lisa's death and has tried to cover it up and is getting caught now in lie after lie.

artgal16 wrote:Again we ask the question - in an accidental death - why do the parents hide the body. In casey anthonys case I always believed that she killed Caylee and it wasnt an accident. Kyron I felt died as the result of child abuse and Haley Dunn I felt was raped and killed by Sean. In this case I feel it was an accident but that Debbie felt that she had too much to lose if she reported it. I dont know what Jeremy's complicity in this whole thing is, but I feel that Debbie somehow is responsbile for Lisa's death and has tried to cover it up and is getting caught now in lie after lie.

I agree w/you re: Casey. I believe Kyron's death was pre-meditated by the step mother. I think Hailey Dunn was trafficked out by Sean and BD and possibly some of the CCPD. I think my dear little HaLeigh Cummings died at the hands of her father. I think Lisa's mom was too drunk to know what the hell happened and that homeless man had something to do with taking her daughter. I do not think she is involved and did not pass the poly due to blacking out...similar to Misty. MOO.

I think Lisa's mom was too drunk to know what the hell happened and that homeless man had something to do with taking her daughter. I do not think she is involved and did not pass the poly due to blacking out...similar to Misty.

I still think the blackout could be fabricated, as I said upthread, to give Deborah an excuse to not have answers about what happened the night Lisa disappeared.

Deborah Bradley: Nothing to Hide?
Author: Angela Flynn
Published: October 19, 2011 at 6:58 am

I usually don’t write about a topic twice, but I can’t stop thinking about the Lisa Irwin case. The fact that it involves a 10-month-old child has much to do with it. When the story first broke, there was a possibility that a stranger might have taken this baby. I didn’t fully understand how it could have happened, but my hope was Lisa would be found safe and alive. The past few days has created more doubt as the story is changing. Unfortunately we have seen this pattern before and the outcome is never a good one.

The mother, Deborah Bradley, now admits to being drunk the night of the disappearance. She reports last seeing Lisa at approximately 6:30 pm. Why did she leave out this “detail”? Is she more worried about how she looks at this point? Why would a mother who is alone in the house at night with 3 children, drink to the point of getting drunk? Does she have a problem with alcohol? If it was a lapse in judgment, why did she pick that night? Did she really get drunk alone?

The parents have spent a great deal of time talking to the media. This behavior has been observed before with the likes of Susan Smith and Scott Peterson. I remember the Peterson interview with Diane Sawyer. He didn’t miss a beat answering her questions and had a response for all of them. That interview played a big role in his trial. One could argue that the couple is trying to keep their case public in an effort to find their daughter. Her new legal team has put a stop to these interviews as they recognize the damage that could come from them.

These new lawyers and investigators have also stated that mother has “nothing to hide”. That doesn’t match with the new information about what happened that night. I would think that upon discovering that your child is missing, you would tell the whole truth right at the start. It only adds suspicion to a case that is becoming increasing incredulous, and has added a significant amount doubt. Once again, a child is the victim of something inconceivable to most. My heart still has the hope of a miracle, but my head fears that it will not happen.

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BJ wrote:

I think Lisa's mom was too drunk to know what the hell happened and that homeless man had something to do with taking her daughter. I do not think she is involved and did not pass the poly due to blacking out...similar to Misty.

I still think the blackout could be fabricated, as I said upthread, to give Deborah an excuse to not have answers about what happened the night Lisa disappeared.

You have a good point. But, there is video of her buying baby food and a box of wine that night. I am sure the feds found the empty box of wine. MOO.

I dont believe this homeless man had a thing to do with Lisas disappearance. I think whatever happened to Lisa happened after Debbie came in from drinking with the neighbor. There was a ping from the cell phone that means to me the police know the cell phon was used and from where the call originated - what about the burnt childs clothing found in the dumpster?

Art, can you send me a link to where you read about the burnt baby clothes? I hadn't heard that before and would love to read about it, thanks a ton.

WEDNESDAY, OCTOBER 19, 2011
Baby Lisa: Gone, Baby, Gone
by Pat Brown

Pretty much, that is all we know right now. Ten-month-old baby Lisa Irwin was there and then she wasn't. Two weeks have passed since her disappearance and she hasn't reappeared, dead or alive. Wait, we know one other thing: she didn't climb out of her crib and go for a walkabout. Someone removed her from her home, so we know someone knows something. We just don't know who.

In missing baby cases where proof of abduction is weak, there ends up being two scenarios: the parents did something to the child or someone else slipped in and made off with the child. Unlike an abduction where a child is seen by witnesses being dragged into a vehicle or a case where a child walking from school never arrives home but her parents have solid alibis, a child who goes missing on the parents' watch often causes the parents to become suspects at some point in time.

The parents of Sabrina Eisenburg became suspects very quickly; the parents of Madeleine McCann became suspects when the police focus when the detective on the case eventually began to think the timeline and parents' behavior didn't add up. Both of these cases remain open and the missing children have never been found. Both cases have a camp that believes the child was abducted and a camp that thinks the parents caused the death of the child and orchestrated a cover-up. If Baby Lisa is never found, the parents, Deborah Bradley and Jeremy Irwin, will be added to this club.

Once upon a time we believed parents of missing children: we never doubted that the people standing in front of the camera, crying and begging for their child's return, were playing us. But after we got burnt by the performance of Susan Smith and a number of others, we have become more skeptical. We now replay the video to see if the parent is crying real tears and we watch their body language. We examine every bit of evidence. We don' t want to yet again be duped into expending emotion on a parent who will turn out to be a killer and a fake and we don't want to spend our valuable time searching for a child whose parents already know exactly where she is.

Baby Lisa is missing and many people are not accepting the parents' story at face value and throwing them their unconditional support. They are searching for inconsistencies in their story, for proof that the baby was abducted, for alibis that are supportable, and for behaviors that don't seem right.

And, unfortunately, for Deborah Bradley and Jeremy Irwin, they are not faring well in the analysis.

The basic hurdles parents must clear these days to keep the public faith in them include:
Real tears: Deborah clearly had tears in many interviews; Jeremy, no.
Strong emotion: Deborah, yes, Jeremy, no.
Nice house, well kept: yes
Good looking baby: yes
Charming photos and video: yes
Willingness to speak in the media: yes, but then refused to do local media, only national. Made it seem like a desire to be famous might be at play
Willingness to talk to the police: yes, until they stopped. Then they started again, only now police say they are not answering all the questions
Pass the polygraph: Deborah says she failed; Jeremy didn't take one.
Consistent story: Deborah has changed the time frame and now claims she was drunk; Jeremy originally said he checked the kids first and now says he talked to Deborah first
Crime scene has visible signs of abduction: There is only a slightly opened window and left- unlocked door which does not prove an abduction occurred
Parents show responsible behavior: Deborah now states it is okay for her to be drunk while caring for the children
Suspicious strangers have been lurking around: So far there has only been a homeless handyman who is said to have been cleared
Police not focusing on parents: The police are clearly heavily focusing on the parents
Not lawyering up: They now have Joran van der Sloot's lawyer which may be smart but makes the them look like they need a strong defense.
Not having things about the case that make you go "hmmm:" Deborah has stated that her children heard some strange noises but she has never asked them about what they heard and when because she doesn't want to upset them. Another thing that has bugged me is that Deborah has called her child "Baby Lisa" in television interviews; this is a name given by the media to identify the story and not something a mother usually calls her own child. Then, the "drunk/blackout" story came out after the parents got a lawyer and one wonders if this is a defense strategy for court or a way to excuse Deborah from answering any more police questions about what happened that night. Finally, Deborah changing the time she last saw her daughter (put her to bed) seems like a way to take emphasis off the later time, a time that her sons may have heard something and that Mom doesn't want to acknowledge. Oh, and Deborah also said she thought she would be arrested which is very odd unless she is aware there is more evidence implicating her than we know.


If I add up this list, I have to say the parents haven't done so well going over these hurdles. Public suspicion is likely increasing rather than decreasing. Right now, I would say as a criminal profiler, the evidence and behaviors indicate the parents are more likely to have involvement in the disappearance of Baby Lisa than a stranger to have abducted her. But, without proof or solid evidence, this set of inputs could be misinterpreted - an abductor might have managed to sneak in and out without detection; maybe he did turn on the lights and steal phones because he is a major weirdo.

The parents might have odd behaviors - even personality disorders - which cause them to act in a manner that arouses suspicion but they still didn't do anything to their baby. Mom and Dad could be awful parents and still be innocent of doing anything criminal. But, because they are not passing the "hurdle" test very well, the police are going to be all over them, people are going to stop looking for the baby, and, if no abductor is ever caught (and the parents aren't found guilty), then, like the Eisenburgs and the McCanns, a cloud of suspicion will always hang over their heads.

Where do you stand on the likelihood of Baby Lisa's parents being involved in her disappearance? What would you add to the list of "hurdles?" How does what you have seen of the case and the parents affect your willingness to support the search for Lisa?

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artgal16 wrote:I dont believe this homeless man had a thing to do with Lisas disappearance. I think whatever happened to Lisa happened after Debbie came in from drinking with the neighbor. There was a ping from the cell phone that means to me the police know the cell phon was used and from where the call originated - what about the burnt childs clothing found in the dumpster?

Art, I know I drive you bat sh*t but need a link. Thanks!!!!!

Wrap, it's from the Hinkymeter and maybe other places, too..... you're not reading all the posts! :)

by artgal16 Today at 7:46 am
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OK, my bad. Tell Art I am sorry.

Wrap I miss things all the time! No problem!

Thanks, Art!!

Im not Artgal but here is a link stating what was said about the burnt clothes.

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The mother of a missing Northland baby added several new twists to an already perplexing case Monday as the search for her daughter entered its third week.

Deborah Bradley revealed in appearances on network TV morning shows that she last saw Lisa Irwin nearly four hours before the time she initially gave police. And Bradley said she had been drinking wine — “enough to be drunk” — on Oct. 3, the night the child, now 11 months old, disappeared from her crib

The revelations came on a busy day in the case that included the announcement that a high-profile New York lawyer would represent Lisa’s parents. Meanwhile, investigators drained a Northland creek and had dogs sniffing around the family’s home in their continuing search for clues.

But authorities reported no progress in the case.

The lawyer, former New York City prosecutor Joe Tacopina, said in a news conference Monday afternoon that Bradley and Jeremy Irwin, Lisa’s father, were innocent and would cooperate with authorities. Tacopina declined to say who was paying for his services.

He said Lisa’s parents had consented to have their house searched again and would cooperate with investigators.

“They have nothing to hide, and they have said that from day one,” Tacopina said.

He said his clients do not know what happened the night Lisa disappeared.

“These are two parents who are grieving every day over the loss of their daughter,” he said. “Hopefully she will come back to them.”

Lisa’s parents stood behind Tacopina during the news conference. Neither of them spoke, and the lawyer said he had advised them to stop talking to the media.

His recommendation came hours after Bradley spoke out again on network TV.

In an interview with Peter Alexander on NBC’s “Today” show, Bradley admitted she was drinking the night Lisa disappeared.

When asked whether there was any way she could have done something to hurt her daughter, Bradley said, “No. No. No. And if I thought there was a chance, I’d say it. … I don’t think that alcohol changes a person enough to do something like that.”

Tacopina said at the news conference that Bradley’s admission of being intoxicated that night was a sign of her credibility and willingness to be truthful even at the expense of people’s perceptions of her.

The “Today” show also reported that Bradley now says she last saw Lisa when she put the baby to bed around 6:40 p.m. Oct. 3. Police have said that Bradley told them she put Lisa to bed at 10:30 p.m.

When Tacopina was asked in the news conference about the time difference, he said Bradley may not have been sure of the time she put Lisa to bed, but that was immaterial to the child’s disappearance.

“There are going to be discrepancies, but there were absolutely no discrepancies that have caused police to take any action,” Tacopina said.

Retired FBI agent Jeff Lanza, who has investigated child disappearances, said that if Bradley is now changing the time she last saw her daughter, it sends up “gigantic red flags” for law enforcement.

Lanza said that in any criminal investigation, having an accurate timeline of events is “extremely important.” Changing that timeline would require investigators to go back and look at things differently, he said.

And any time key witnesses change their stories, it creates doubts among investigators about those witnesses’ credibility, he said.

“It indicates on some level that there are problems with the person providing the story,” Lanza said.

Lanza said that if the discrepancy in timing is because Bradley wasn’t thinking clearly because she was drinking, she should have told investigators about her condition that night, instead of changing her story two weeks into the investigation.

Bradley, who was interviewed on “Today” alongside Jeremy Irwin, said she thought she could be arrested because she was the last person to be with Lisa before the baby disappeared.

“The main fear with that is if they arrest me, people are going to stop looking for her,” she said. “And then I’ll never see her again. And I’ll never know what happened.”

Bradley also spoke briefly about the polygraph test that police told her she failed. “They said that I failed when they asked me where she was,” Bradley said.

In an appearance on ABC’s “Good Morning America,” Bradley said that while police questioned her, investigators showed her burned clothes and a “Doppler thing with pings” from her cellphone.

“I hope the burned clothes weren’t real,” she said.Megyn Kelly of Fox News Channel interviewed Lisa’s parents over the weekend for a show that was broadcast Monday. In the interview, Bradley acknowledged she was drunk the night her daughter disappeared.

“I don’t see the problem in me having my grown-up time,” Bradley told Kelly. “I take good care of my kids. I keep my house clean. I do their laundry. I kiss their boo-boos. I fix them food. I’m involved in their school stuff.

“I mean, to me, there’s nothing wrong with me doing what I want to do after dark. As soon as I’m done drinking, I go right to bed.”

Bradley said she drank “maybe a couple of times a week,” and only after her children were in bed. She said she takes anxiety medication but does not use illegal drugs.

Tacopina said the parents were “cooperating in every sense of the word,” but police later disputed that statement.

“The parents’ level of cooperation hasn’t been what it needs to be in order for us to find this girl,” said Kansas City Police Capt. Steve Young. “Should they change their minds, the door is always open.”

Police last interviewed Lisa’s parents Oct. 6. That same day — two days after Lisa vanished — Bradley refused additional police questioning or contact unless it went through a lawyer, sources close to the investigation told The Kansas City Star. Jeremy Irwin has insisted he be interviewed with Bradley present, the sources said.

In the days since, police have had trouble reaching the parents to discuss tips in the case or talk to them informally. In one instance, the parents said they could not talk to police because they already had scheduled a TV interview with a national outlet, sources said.

Although police have had brief contacts with Lisa’s parents in recent days, detectives have been unable to ask Bradley about inconsistencies in what she has told the national media outlets, including her changing timeline for the night her baby disappeared.

Young said police have tracked 550 leads to completion and they have “all led to nothing.”

On Monday, a team of police and FBI investigators and dogs searched an area along a creek near Chouteau Elementary School at 37th Street and North Jackson Avenue, Young said. Authorities used earth-moving equipment to divert the creek.

Tacopina said he and Lisa’s parents were optimistic that the child is alive.

“It is not about innuendo. It is not about rumor or mistaken facts. And it is not about rank speculation,” he said. “It is about finding where Lisa is and securing her safe return.”

Tacopina, a former prosecutor in Brooklyn, has been involved in several high-profile cases in recent years, including the 2005 disappearance of American high school student Natalee Holloway in Aruba, the murder of Yale University student Annie Le and the torture of a Haitian immigrant by officers in a New York police precinct.

Tacopina also represented an associate of pop singer Michael Jackson when that associate faced criminal charges, and he has represented New York-area police officers in a number of criminal cases.

Like Bill Stanton, the New York private investigator who has become part of the Irwin case, Tacopina has been interviewed frequently on network news and legal shows.

Stanton said in Monday’s news conference that he would be leaving Kansas City but would stay in contact with Lisa’s family. Stanton said he had accomplished what he set out to do, but he provided no details.

Lanza said Monday’s twists were just the latest in what has been a series of unusual developments in the case.

Some of those developments include the family not speaking to the local news media, police announcing publicly that the parents were no longer cooperating with them, Bradley announcing on national TV that she failed a polygraph test and the arrival of a private investigator who said he had been hired by an “anonymous benefactor.”

“Lots of bizarre things have happened in this case,” Lanza said

This case reminds me so much of Haleigh Cumming's case.

Yep, it sure does!!! Only difference is that she is the actual mother of Lisa and she has admitted she was drunk. Other than that, the similarities are eerie!!!!

Yep. Something how most of these cases have similar and overlapping stories.

I think the Kansas police are determined to solve this one - and I know they dont believe Debbie's story.

Well I finally figured out one thing. Why Debbie is still married to her husband. Money.

If he is in the service and deployed she is entitled to everything a wife can get. It also sounds like he has been in the service for quite a while...since before the 6 year old was born. So his pay and her allotment and housing would be higher than the average Joe just joining up.

An allotment check.
Housing allowance.
Medical Insurance.

Then she moves in with Jeremy who is an electrician, they have a child but she never divorces hubby number one...the big allotment guy so she can marry Jeremy. In my area electricians make big money. I don't know if he is union or not.

So then I ask...how come she could not pay the cell phone bill? I don't see a fancy car or anything fancy in the house.

What the heck were they doing with their money?

Makes me think of drugs. Makes me also wonder just who "stopped by" at the wine party that night.

I would love to hear from that neighbor who was drinking with Debbie that night. She is certainly a mysterious woman.

I would love to hear from that neighbor who was drinking with Debbie that night. She is certainly a mysterious woman.

Well, I was watching that live feed of the search of the back yard and from what I could see, it didn't look like they found anything, or at least from what I could see they just did a final walk through in a formed line and now they are gone from the back yard. I wonder if they found anything from that Green shed? This story does remind me all to much of our little HL cummings :(

KMBC getting ready to broadcast a live media report from near Lisa Irwin's home. Live Blog: Search Continues For Missing 11-Month Old
livewire.kmbc.com

Thanks Sly

Thanks to Jeanne we also now have a motive to hide a body in case of an accidental death - money again - Debbie stands a lot to lose if she even had to admit to an accidental death. What is this about not paying the phone bills - first I have heard of it. Anyone have a link?

Extremely similar case reported and it occurred in Fayetteville North Carolina and I think Fort Bragg:

A Spring Lake woman pleaded guilty Monday to second-degree murder in the death of her 11-month-old daughter, whose skeletal remains were discovered stuffed in a diaper box in the attic of the family home, according to the Harnett County district attorney.

Johni Michelle Heuser, 28, was sentenced to between 11 and 15 years in prison after pleading guilty to murdering Harmony Jade Creech in 2007.

Though the cause of the child’s death remains undetermined, prosecutors contended there was evidence of starvation.

Heuser had been charged with first-degree murder, but in entering the plea Monday, she removed the possibility of the death penalty.

Prosecutors say Heuser killed the girl between Aug. 31, 2007, and Sept. 30, 2007, but no one found out about it until Oct. 19, 2007, when a Harnett County Sheriff’s Office deputy was called to the 1600 block of Ray Road in Spring Lake to a report of a missing child, District Attorney Susan Doyle said in a statement.

Heuser told the deputy that she had last seen the child the night before and that she discovered the child was missing from her crib about 11 a.m. A window had been opened and a screen removed, she told the officer.

Deputies, joined by the FBI, began searching for the child and eventually found the remains in a diaper box in the attic, Doyle said.

After being confronted by the remains, Heuser told investigators she had found the child looking white and not breathing in her crib one morning around the end of August or beginning of September, she said. Heuser claimed she had wanted to call police but was afraid she would be blamed for the child’s death and that her other children would be taken, she said.

Heuser told investigators she wanted to bury the child but she couldn’t bring herself to do it, Doyle said. Instead, Heuser wrapped the child’s body in plastic and put it in a diaper box, which was shelved in the attic for at least two weeks.

Heuser told investigators that she opened the window the night before the child’s father, Army Sgt. Ronald Earl Creech II, returned home from an Iraq deployment so it would appear the girl had been abducted, Doyle said.

Dr. Ann Ross, an anthropologist at N.C. State University, examined the remains and concluded that she could not determine the cause of death but that the probable cause was chronic starvation.

Dr. Deborah Radisch, the state’s chief medical examiner, concluded in an examination report that “no trauma was identified and that the findings were inconsistent with regard to the presence of malnutrition/starvation.”

Radisch concluded that there was no way to determine whether the child had died of a natural cause, such as sudden infant death syndrome, or whether the child had been smothered to death. The cause of death remained “undetermined,” although Radisch noted that the child had a history of medical neglect.

Doyle said the state accepted Heuser’s guilty plea to second-degree murder after consulting with Creech because the cause of death was undetermined and would have been “highly contested” in a jury trial.

Heuser was sentenced to a minimum of 141 months and a maximum of 179 months in prison.
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Police Conduct New Search of Baby Lisa’s Home, Yard
Crime scene investigators in white jumpsuits descended on the Kansas City home of a missing Missouri girl Wednesday morning to execute a search warrant on the property.

Police would not say why they obtained a search warrant late Tuesday for the house where 10-month-old Lisa Irwin reportedly vanished over two weeks ago, but they had searched the home several times before with the consent of the girl’s parents.

FBI agents and Kansas City police arrived to execute the warrant soon after 8:00 am on Wednesday, blocking off the roads leading to the North Lister Avenue home. The AP reported that the FAA initiated a no-fly zone over the neighborhood for the duration of the search, which was expected to last several hours.
Lisa Irwin’s parents, Deborah Bradley and Jeremy Irwin, reported her missing around 4:00 am on October 4 when Irwin returned from work and she was missing from her crib, where Bradley said she had put her around 6:40 pm the night before. Bradley initially claimed she checked on Lisa at 10:30 pm, but she acknowledged in media interviews earlier this week that 6:40 was actually the last time she saw her and that she drank several glasses of wine that night.

According to CNN affiliate KMBC, investigators spent a lot of time Wednesday around a shed in the back yard of the home and they were seen using shovels to dig near it.

A police spokesman told CNN that a Kansas City Police Bomb and Arson Unit truck was being brought to the scene, but he emphasized that no explosive devices had been found. The unit just has some equipment that investigators believed could help with the search.

According to the FBI, the search warrant was not sought because of a specific tip and it was not the result of the parents refusing to consent to searches of any parts of the home. A spokesperson said that it was part of an effort to be as thorough as possible in the investigation.

Joe Tacopina, an attorney for Irwin’s parents, told a Nancy Grace producer Wednesday that police are free to go into the house whenever they want and the parents have consented every time a request was made. Responding to claims by police that the parents have not been willing to be interviewed by detectives since October 8, Tacopina said they will sit down and talk to investigators if they are asked.

Tacopina said the parents are also willing to let their other two children be re-interviewed by police, but only under certain conditions and parameters because they do not want the boys to be traumatized further. Bill Stanton, a private investigator working with the family, said in an interview with ABC Tuesday that one of the boys heard “clicking noises” on the night of October 3.
Investigators were still at the Irwin house searching on Wednesday afternoon.

Anyone with information about baby Lisa Irwin’s disappearance is asked to call the TIPS Hotline at 816-474-8477.

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Investigators are executing a search warrant today at the Kansas City family home where 11-month-old Lisa Irwin vanished from her crib on the night of Oct. 3.

Kansas City Police Department Officer Capt. Steve Young told ABCNews.com that investigators will be in the house "pretty heavy today." Police have blocked off the road in front of the house and instituted a no-fly zone over the neighborhood.

Previously, the family had allowed voluntary searches of the home.

Lisa's parents Deborah Bradley and Jeremy Irwin have not stayed at the house since her disappearance. They have been staying at a relative's home.

Young would not comment on the details of what brought police back to the house with a search warrant two weeks after Lisa disappeared, but said, "As the investigation progresses, I'm sure we continue to develop information that causes us to take different and new action."

Police obtained a search warrant for the house late Tuesday night and have had constant police presence on the property since then keeping everyone away from the house, including well-wishers with teddy bears. Investigators are expected to be at the home all day.

Brad Garrett, an ABC News consultant and former FBI special agent, told "Good Morning America" today that police would need to new information in order to secure a search warrant from a judge.

"They would have to show a judge that they have new information," Garrett said. "Now, what could that be? It could be potentially a tip. It could be be potentially a physical piece of evidence that they found."
PHOTO: 10-month-old Lisa Irwin, center, from Kansas City disappeared from her bed Oct. 3, 2011.
Kansas City, Missouri Police Department/AP Photo
10-month-old Lisa Irwin, center, from Kansas... View Full Size
PHOTO: 10-month-old Lisa Irwin, center, from Kansas City disappeared from her bed Oct. 3, 2011.
Kansas City, Missouri Police Department/AP Photo
10-month-old Lisa Irwin, center, from Kansas City disappeared from her bed Oct. 3, 2011.
Missing Baby Lisa: Search Continues Around Home Watch Video
Baby Lisa's Mom Admits She Might Have Been Drunk Watch Video
Missing Baby Lisa: Parent's Lawyer Speaks Watch Video

Police searched the home extensively in the days immediately following Lisa's disappearance with scent canines, FBI agents in hazmat suits and police officers attempted to re-create the window break-in scenario the parents described.

FBI spokeswoman Bridget Patton told ABC's Kansas City affiliate KMBC that no specific tip or lead brought them back to the Irwin home, but detectives are searching for anything to move the investigation forward.

In the past two weeks, police have cleared over 550 tips and leads that have not led to any suspects or hard leads.

Suspicions have escalated surrounding Bradley and Irwin this week with the news that the couple have not submitted to an interview with detectives for the last 10 days to answer questions about things "they might only know," police said Tuesday.

Bradley's story seemed to change this week and she has admitted to being drunk that night, possibly even blacking out.

Kansas City Police Capt. Steve Young expressed some frustration today with Bradley and the girl's father, Jeremy Irwin.

"There are things the detectives need to flesh out with the parents that only they would know and we no longer have that opportunity to sit down with them," Young told ABC News this afternoon. "We have not had an unrestricted conversation since Oct. 8th."

"And that time, and previous times, there came a point when Deborah became uncomfortable and stopped the questioning," Young said.

Young conceded that the parents have spoken with detectives since Oct. 8, but only to clarify information about tips that have come in.

He said the contact has been limited to conversations about details that need to be cleared up such as, "Do you know this person?"

"We strongly believe that that parent's cooperation and involvement is critical [in finding Lisa]," Young said.

Police have previously accused the parents of halting their cooperation, although the parents have insisted they continue to answer officers' questions. Today's comments by police were more specific.

Young also bristled today at criticism by Joe Tacopina, the high powered defense lawyer who is now representing Bradley and Irwin.
Tacopina told "Good Morning America" today that the way some of the local authorities conducted themselves in the hours following Lisa's disappearance was "baffling."

"I am aware that he offered some vague criticisms of the police department," Young said. "I think all reasonable people know that are doing things and we know things that are not a matter of public record."
Missing Baby Lisa: Search Continues Around Home Watch Video
Baby Lisa's Mom Admits She Might Have Been Drunk Watch Video
Missing Baby Lisa: Parent's Lawyer Speaks Watch Video

"Should we develop something that we think will benefit the case by making public, by all means we'll be doing that," the captain said. "But to make the assumption that we're putting all our eggs in one basket would be wildly inaccurate."

Tacopina has also expressed his desire for more "boots on the ground" efforts to search for the girl, although police have been conducting searches every day since Lisa's disappearance in places including woods, fields, landfills, drainage areas, abandoned houses and a well.
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Thanks, Sly!!!!!

artgal16 wrote:Thanks to Jeanne we also now have a motive to hide a body in case of an accidental death - money again - Debbie stands a lot to lose if she even had to admit to an accidental death. What is this about not paying the phone bills - first I have heard of it. Anyone have a link?

When this investigation first started they..rumor...I guess said that the baby and three cell phones had been taken. Mommy said the cell phones did not work because she didn't pay the cell phone bill.

I would have to go way back in time to find all the links for that one. Lets just say "rumor".