Tammi Smith and Elizabeth Johnson scheduled to go to trial Aug 9 to face criminal charges in the case of the missing Gabriel Johnson/ / Johnson said she killed her son Gabriel/ Audio of Elizabeth's call to Logan just released 12/14/10

argal wrote"---there would at least have been a legal solution for the child. Eveyone is focused on Elizabeth what of the childs welfare? He had some bond with his mother
and then he is passed around like a football? Is he supposed to bond with these new people, then he will be given back to strangers again if they were to "turn him in" and then -where? foster care? What effect on that poor little tyke? She might have taken care of him physically but what has she done to him emotionally?"

Even if he has been passed around like a football, he might still have a great chance for a healthy, happy life---if he has not been abused by anyone and he has now found caring people who will give him a good home. JMO

Aw, thanks everyone for sharing their personal stories. I have to agree w/ Artgal... fine if she made the unselfish decision to adopt him out, but she should have done it with a legal agency. Once, the courts found the father to be unsuitable as a parent. She would have been able to pick the family out through a legal agency, and she and the prospective parents would have determined rights.

It doesn't look like there was any way for her to prove the ex unsuitable and I am thinking this is why she ran and tried to do it on her own. The custody was a done deal. JMO

I think my biggest fear right now is that this girl Elizabeth was in a bad mental state. She was running and just hanging on by a thread. My concern is that she might have accidently overdosed little Gabriel on that tylenol just to make him quiet and he might have died.
I truly believe if she knew where he was she would tell. But then again maybe she has no idea.
They always say follow the money. I wonder if there were any checks or money hidden someplace?
Its a mystery for sure.

If she overdosed him on tylenol, it wouldnt have been on accident.

Some babies that are teething do well on tylenol until it starts to wear off, in which case if his dosage was due to wear off soon then she was right to warn the babysitter that if he started to cry to give him more, because of course if he was teething that was going to be the biggest reason he was crying.

The other thing is, we dont know if Gabriel was colicky. The way everyone describes him he sounds like a baby who not only had security issues (and with a mother that threw the kind of fits that his did, who really wonders why) but also had colic. I remember with katelynn, she was only like a week old...and she had a really really bad episode of colic one night, and i couldnt figure out what was wrong with her. I sat with her, i rocked her, i walked with her...She just would not stop. Colic can be VERY VERY bad, and since its most times related to a 'tummy ache' that could be another reason she was giving him tylenol.

I have to agree with Artgal here. Who takes their 8 mo old baby on a cross country trip alone during the Christmas season, stays in a motel on Christmas Day in a city where she allegedly knows no one, hires a babysitter from Craigslist (this sitter could have been a wacko), gets decked out and goes out for two hours? Come on..this is NOT good parenting. Oh, and if he gets cranky, just give him more Tylenol.

I am sorry EJ went from foster home to foster home, although it seems she has a twin brother and grandfather who love and care about her. I am sad that she MAY have some mental issues. I am saddened that she evidently does not want her child.

But her decision making STINKS!!

Terry Rose, thank goodness your family banded together to take care of your grandson. And thank goodness for you who seemed to be the voice of reason. Your DIL is and was lucky to have you in her life even though she sounds ungrateful as all hell.

Colic, teething or whatever..EJ has made one bad decision after another..all at the expense of an innocent child who no one knows where he is. Except EJ.

Thanks, Wrap, This young mother seems to have had nobody to help her or even to talk things out with or go to for advice.

Sassy, one of mine had colic very very bad from formula because I had to bottle feed that one. But it subsided after the first 3 or 4 months. I think it is primarily a problem in the newborn or 1 to 3 month stage. Correct me if I am wrong, but I think Gabriel was too old for that to have been a major problem. Am I wrong?

What does strike me odd about his pictures, however, is he hasn't yet pulled his belly up in any that I saw. He must not be crawling yet, but that isn't all that rare. There are babies who do nothing until a year old and then they do it all at once.

When the sitter was interviewed by NG, she said EJ said a few words and then left. When NG pressed her more, it turns out EJ said more than that about taking care of the baby and then said once again that was all she said. NG presses her more and she comes up with more things that EJ said. The sitter seems nice but hardly seems like an expert to judge anything. The baby may have been scared like she said, then again it might have been something else bothering him. At least EJ cared enough that she was treating his pain with Orajel and Tylenol. Hopefully she knew the hazards of exceeding the dose of Tylenol.

I hope we will find out soon if Gabriel is alive and well. I think we have all taken him into our hearts here on VH. It will be heartbreaking if we find out that EJ harmed him in a fit of mania. I am still thinking she didn't and that he is being cared for by someone else, and on this I hope and pray I am right.

TEMPE, AZ -- Police confirm to ABC15 there are two, separate, yet parallel investigations involving the disappearance of 8-month-old Gabriel Johnson.

A team of detectives are working a missing persons investigation and a homicide investigation at the same time because it is unknown if boy's mother gave the child away or killed him.

Tempe detectives have also released photos taken of the baby boy who has been missing since his mother left Tempe with him in late December.

Tempe Police Lt. Mike Horn said in an e-mail that the pictures were taken from Elizabeth Johnson's camera when she was arrested in Miami Beach, Florida nearly two weeks after the pair went missing.





Horn told ABC15 a group of investigators from the FBI, San Antonio Police Department, Maricopa County Attorney's Office and other agencies are actively involved in the case across the country.

Johnson was indicted by a grand jury Thursday.

Horn says investigators believe all the photographs were taken at a Home Gate Hotel and that the last two photos have a date stamp of December 26.

Johnson was indicted on charges of kidnapping, child abuse, custodial interference, and conspiracy to commit custodial interference.

Well known TV show, America's Most Wanted, featured the Gabriel Johnson case, but Horn would not discuss any tips generated by the publicity, only that investigators continue to get tips and are using every means possible to get information.

Rest of article here:

http://www.abc15.com/content/news/southeastvalley/tempe/story/Tempe-PD-2-investigations-involving-missing-baby/xgsbK2cK80iD5ZWBC0ifjg.cspx

If the pic of Gabriel and EJ were taken Dec. 26th, I would like to know WHO took the picture.

Look at his beautiful eyes, how could his mother look into eyes that are identical to hers and either give him away or throw him away? This is so sad for his family, the ones that loved him. Sad for him, sad for all of us to comprehend!

I just pray they find Gabriel this week. Between Tempe, San Antonio and Miami Beach..something has GOT to give. I am only an hour and a half from San Antonio. If she did in fact give him away to a couple in San Antonio, who is to say they actually live in SA?? He could be in or around my area for all I know. Honestly, everytime I go to WalMart or any public place, I take a 2nd look at the babies.

My heart aches for baby Gabriel and those that love him. Although EJ appears to have mental stability issues, I'm careful to think that the bio dad is any better. Abusive men are often the "last person" anyone would have ever expected to be that way. They can be very good at looking innocent, appearing to be the victim. Is it possible that EJ indeed was trying to protect baby Gabriel from him (and herself)? I wouldn't rule it out, especially considering his criminal history and public display of his partying (his myspace photos). Where is Logan's family? I haven't heard any comments from parents, grandparents, sisters...nothing. If she did send baby Gabriel underground, I really think Tammi is the one that concocted and assisted her with this whole scheme. This woman has been nothing but dishonest and selfish...doing whatever it takes, whatever she thinks is going to eventually lead to gaining custody of that little boy. I don't know about her husband, but she definitely has been and continues to be withholding information. I pray baby Gabriel is found very soon and is alive and well.

to Victims Heartland WithPurpose.

lindamarie wrote: to Victims Heartland WithPurpose.

Thanks! This is a really great site.

We have all fallen in love with Gabriel and are praying for him. Thank you for your kind words about Victims Heartland.

WithPurpose wrote:My heart aches for baby Gabriel and those that love him. Although EJ appears to have mental stability issues, I'm careful to think that the bio dad is any better. Abusive men are often the "last person" anyone would have ever expected to be that way. They can be very good at looking innocent, appearing to be the victim. Is it possible that EJ indeed was trying to protect baby Gabriel from him (and herself)? I wouldn't rule it out, especially considering his criminal history and public display of his partying (his myspace photos). Where is Logan's family? I haven't heard any comments from parents, grandparents, sisters...nothing. If she did send baby Gabriel underground, I really think Tammi is the one that concocted and assisted her with this whole scheme. This woman has been nothing but dishonest and selfish...doing whatever it takes, whatever she thinks is going to eventually lead to gaining custody of that little boy. I don't know about her husband, but she definitely has been and continues to be withholding information. I pray baby Gabriel is found very soon and is alive and well.

I heartily agree with every word of your post! I too have begun to wonder why there is no mention of Logan's family in all this. Then to find out he has a criminal record makes it all seem as though Gabriel would not have found a safe home with him. Welcome to VH. I am looking forward to reading more of your thoughts.

I am not finding any new updates on this case? And NG doesn't have him on her home page. I wonder if the Smith's finally stopped talking and Lawyered up?

Sadly Gabriel could slip out of the media spotlight like HaLeigh Cummings and other missing children.

Baby Gabriel Was 'Acting Scared'
Babysitter Says Something Wasn't Right as New Photos of Gabriel Released
By ANGELA ELLIS and KATE McCARTHY
Jan. 18, 2010

Eight-month-old Gabriel Johnson's babysitter, Analisa Urias, one of the last-known people to see the missing baby, said he seemed sad and frightened the night she took care of him.

One of the last people to have seen the missing Arizona baby has her say.

The baby's mother, Elizabeth Johnson, 23, hired Urias through a Craig's List ad to babysit Gabriel in a Texas hotel room while she was in the midst of a cross-country trip to escape a custody dispute with the boy's biological father.

"Elizabeth told me if anyone came knocking on the door not to answer it," Urias told ABC News.

Tempe, Ariz., police Friday released the photographs of Gabriel taken by Johnson in the same Texas hotel room in hopes it would help them find the missing baby.

Although Gabriel appears to be healthy and active, lying on a bed with toys and a pacifier, investigators fear that Gabriel is holding a medicine dropper in two of the photos .

"Elizabeth told me to give him a bottle in about an hour and then her exact words were to, 'Give him more medicine if he started crying to shut him up,'" Urias said.

"Gabriel wasn't acting like a normal baby," she said. "He was acting scared, he didn't want to play. He acted like he was sad."

The photographs were discovered on Johnson's camera following her arrest Dec. 29 in Miami.

In another disturbing claim, Urias said she found a large knife next to the bed in the motel room.

"It looked like a butcher type of knife and, you know, I thought that was weird because why would she have it next to her bed? It's something that would belong in the kitchen," Urias said.

The photographs were date-stamped Dec. 26, the last day Gabriel was seen.

Johnson is now in a Tempe, Ariz., jail and faces kidnapping, child abuse, custodial interference and conspiracy to commit custodial interference charges after she allegedly sent text messages to the boy's biological father, Logan McQueary, that she had killed their son and left his body in a dumpster.

Johnson later changed her story and said she gave the baby to a random couple she met in a San Antonio, Texas, park.

Rest of story and pics here:

http://abcnews.go.com/GMA/baby-gabriel-johnsons-babysitter-speaks-photos-released/story?id=9587297

I read this earlier today somewhere, I question this babysitter. Is she a trained professional? How does a child that young look "scared"? More scared than the average baby being left in a strange hotel room with a strange babysitter? My kids would have been a little scared of a stranger and with mommy leaving. Personally, I think the sitter is enjoying her 15 minutes of fame.

You may be right, and as I stated upthread..who leaves their child with an unknown person they found on Craigslist in an unknown town? That does NOT show good, responsible parenting at all.

And who responds to a CL ad like that with out turning it over to LE? I mean, I would NEVER post an ad on CL and leave my child with someone I have NEVER met in my life. To me, that is child neglect and I would have called the cops as soon as she left for her "appointment"!!

Good point, Mommy. EJ could have gone through a babysitting agency listed in the phone book. We all know Craigslist is no where to go to find a babysitter!!

Wrapitup wrote:You may be right, and as I stated upthread..who leaves their child with an unknown person they found on Craigslist in an unknown town? That does NOT show good, responsible parenting at all.

Thank you!!!

Just a comment about the tylenol. In the pictures it appears baby Gabriel is playing with a bottle of grape tylenol infant drops. These bottles are specifically designed so if a baby were to ingest the entire contents, it would be very unlikely to cause any serious or permanent harm. I agree with all of you that he should not have been allowed to play with it. Unfortunately, I have seen many mothers allow their fussy baby to play with these. I always fear the baby will chew on the rubber dropper enough to pop it out and possibly choke.

:jaw dropping: Like all of you, I can't imagine any mother that would leave their child with someone they found on CL! That's a tragedy waiting to happen! And what type of babysitter would advertise on CL and show up at a motel room to "babysit" for someone they had never met and knew nothing about? That's a tragedy waiting to happen too! Cuddling with my 4 year old and 2 year old on the couch. I am truly blessed.

Elizabeth Johnson hasn't said much since she was booked into a Maricopa County jail.
She hasn't seen many people, either -- just her lawyers and Jack and Tammi Smith, the couple who tried to adopt baby Gabriel and police named 'persons of interest' in this case.
On Monday, she saw her grandfather for the first time.
Elizabeth Johnson refuses to say where 8-month-old Gabriel is, even though her friends and family keep asking her to open up. She told her grandfather her lawyers say helping find her baby won't help her.
Bob Johnson hasn't been face to face with his granddaughter since police said she took off with her little boy last month. On Monday, Johnson sat down with Elizabeth Johnson in the Estrella Jail.
The 23-year-old's grandfather had a lot of questions for Elizabeth.
Johnson said, "Most of the things I wanted to ask her, she said she can't talk about."
Johnson said for the most part, Elizabeth is keeping her mouth shut. He said she told him her lawyers told her not to say anything.
Johnson said, "They told me kidnapping is kidnapping and she's gonna get 20 years ."
Bob said Elizabeth doesn't know why she'd help investigators since her lawyers told her she's going to prison for 20 years no matter what she does to help them.
At best, this is a kidnapping case with a child found. At worst, this could turn into a murder investigation. Bob hopes that isn't the case. He said Elizabeth may be the only one who can answer questions about her son's whereabouts.
"That's the message I left today," Johnson said. "Quicker they find that baby, quicker you get out of here; it's that simple."

http://www.kpho.com/news/22266828/detail.html

Thanks for the update BJ. That does not sound good and I fear the worst.

I don't think Elizabeth is going to give LE anymore info about Gabriel. If he's alive and she's going to get 20 years for kidnapping, regardless, then why would she disclose his whereabouts? She accomplished what she started out to do. Her ex doesn't have Gabriel, though I doubt that a prison sentence, for herself, was how she was expecting the story to end. If Gabriel is dead, at her hands, I'm sure that she is hoping the body is never found so she isn't charged with more than kidnapping. She's done talking IMO.

I agree with you, BJ. Unless LE comes up with more leads, this case is at a standstill.

The tone of optimism investigators had last week that missing baby Gabriel was alive and would be found seemed dampened Monday as police discussed the case.

Indicators police had that the baby was alive aren't as strong as they once were, Lt. Mike Horn told reporters, though he declined to elaborate on those indicators.

Gabriel has been missing for more than a month since his mother, Elizabeth Johnson, 23, took off with him in mid- December.

After telling his father on the phone that she had suffocated Gabriel and stuffed him in a baby bag, Johnson was arrested in Miami on Dec. 30 without the child. A nationwide search has been under way ever since.

"There is a very real possibility that Elizabeth killed Gabriel," Horn told reporters.

"What frustrates people, what scares people is that we may come to a point where we don't know what happened to Gabriel. And tips aren't coming in at the same volume they were a week ago."

Police released photos that were taken at the HomeGate Studios and Suites hotel in San Antonio, at least one of the places that Johnson stayed with Gabriel when she left the Valley.

The pictures from Johnson's camera, which was found when she was arrested, show the boy looking tired and sickly and gripping a prescription-pill bottle.

"I've never seen him look like that," his father, Logan McQueary, said.

"I saw that picture and I just started crying. Even when he was tired, he never looked like that."

Police in San Antonio have searched dumpsters and landfills in the area where Johnson had stayed with Gabriel, Horn said.

A surveillance camera outside a San Antonio motel showed Johnson getting on a bus without Gabriel on Dec. 27.

"Something happened in San Antonio, and someone out there knows what that is," he said, referring to the possibility that Johnson may have given the child away, as she has said in previous statements to media outlets.

"Even if we can't find Gabriel alive, we at least want to find out what happened to him and start bringing some closure," Horn said.

The boy's 25-year-old father, who lived with Johnson in Tempe up until last month, said that he has moved in with his father and that they have set up a new room for Gabriel.

McQueary spoke Monday for the first time in nearly two weeks and said he still believes his son is alive.

McQueary said he has wrestled with whether to visit Johnson in jail and whether that would make her more likely to speak or further anger her.

http://www.azcentral.com/arizonarepublic/local/articles/2010/01/19/20100119baby0119.html

Johnson’s family members say she has stopped giving them much information after her lawyer advised staying silent would be in her best interest when the case goes to court.
“They have her scared out of her mind.” said Johnson’s grandfather Bob Johnson who tried to reason with his granddaughter.
“That's the message I left today. The quicker they find that baby, quicker you get out of here, it is that simple."
Johnson may be unwilling to help investigators since she could be facing a significant prison sentence, whether the charges are kidnapping or murder.
Gabriel’s father Logan McQuery made his own plea at a news conference Monday evening in Tempe.
“I think about it every day whether he is dead or alive, I want to believe he is alive.” said McQuery
“I just want her to tell the truth.”

http://www.kens5.com/news/Pictures-show-Baby-Gabriel-inside-San-Antonio-hotel-82008242.html

Sounds like Bob Johnson is all over her. Maybe he can break her down and get the truth out of her.

What this really boils down to is EJ put in writing she killed little Gabriel. I will say it again if Gabriel don't show up LE will be pressing murder charges against her. They will be playing hard ball with her. Be very careful what you put in writing as it may be used against you even if it is not true.That poor Grandpa and what he has been through thanks to his Granddaughter is heartbreaking.

IDK, Linda Marie. She has a lawyer and there is no body. Now, they charged Casey with murder with no body so who knows??

Wrapitup wrote:IDK, Linda Marie. She has a lawyer and there is no body. Now, they charged Casey with murder with no body so who knows??

People have been charged with murder before even without a body. KC did not put anything in writing saying she killed Caylee. It will be a wait and see thing but I truly believe EJ needs to be made an example out of. Too much of this crap going on. Mothers and Fathers killing and abusing their children.

Associated Press - January 19, 2010 9:04 AM ET

TEMPE, Ariz. (AP) - Police in Arizona have released photographs of a missing Arizona baby.

The photos are believed to have been taken on the last day 8-month-old Gabriel Johnson was seen.

In some, he seems lethargic and in one he's holding what appears to be a medicine bottle.

Tempe police Lt. Mike Horn appeared on morning news shows Tuesday, saying the pictures are causing "great concern" to investigators and raise questions about the mother's treatment of Gabriel.

His mother, 23-year-old Elizabeth Johnson has been indicted on charges of kidnapping, child abuse and custodial interference.

She has refused to say where the baby is since her Dec. 30 arrest.

Horn tells "The Early Show" on CBS he has to wrestle with the possibility Johnson may have killed him.

http://www.kswt.com/Global/story.asp?S=11843883

CBS Early Show video not up yet.

If the police are now thinking she killed him, that is huge.

I believe they are thinking now, that she killed him.
LE was interviewed on the Today show this morning
and I believe that they no longer are buying into the adoption or give-away theory. I think they now believe she killed the baby.
source: today.msnbc.msn.com

I have had a bad feeling for Gabriel since the beginning. I don't think he is alive.

I said it from the beginning only because what kind of person/Mother writes a text message saying I killed him? And then oh "I did not really kill him I just wanted to hurt his Father." Her story adds up about as much as Zanny the Nanny. If LE don't press murder charges on her with her written confession they are making a huge mistake. More and more young Mothers are pulling KC Anthony crap every day. Now I hope they are searching the surrounding landfills so this deed does not go unpunished.

charminglane wrote:I have had a bad feeling for Gabriel since the beginning. I don't think he is alive.

What the hell is going on in this country? Have we raised a generations of kids that think children are disposable, do they not realize that death is forever, you cannot take it back? I sure hope someone in the 'underground' the Smith's were talking about have him.

One of the things that I read on the analysis of the Anthony case was that Casey purposely stayed away from her parents and brother those 30 days so that Caylees body would deteriorate in that heat. I believe that, its the way a sociopath would think. In this case, it could be the same thing - the longer EJ stalls,
the more remote the chance a body, if she did in fact kill the child, would be found. Yes, I think they are taking lessons from Casey Marie Anthony.

Re: one of the above posts. I have to state that a bottle of liquid Tylenol for infants, could in fact kill or damage a baby if the baby were to ingest the contents of the bottle. There are multiple doses in that bottle!! Tylenol damages the liver--the only detoxifying organ of the body. Many deaths in adults even are attributed to Tylenol toxicity. These are ppl like you and me that do not realize that some OTC sleep aids already have Tylenol in them,or that some cold meds have it in them already, or don't realize that extra strength Tylenol is actually 3 Tylenol.
My MIL was taking Percocet around the clock with Tylenol in between for breakthrough pain, with the OK by her Doctor!!!!! I had my SIL question the Doc about this, and the Doc had to actually look up Percocet in the PDR to see that it had Tylenol in it and apologized and told her not to take OTC Tylenol also!!!!!! Tylenol can be a dangerous drug!

What I find strange is that the San Antonio PD have not been able to find his body. Also, she was staying at one motel, but her car was found at Motel 6 which is right across the street from the bus station. Surveillance shows no Gabriel. So, she probably killed him late on the 26th or early morning of 27th. We don't know what time she got on the bus. We don't know how far the motels are from each other. We don't know where she went those two hours. Was it to sell Gabriel for $500? The money she had on her in Miami Beach when arrested? Or, did she have someone take him, kill him and dispose of his body in a completely different area of Texas. It's huge here. There are so many places a body could be buried for decades before being found.

This case keeps me up at night.

If she killed him, then she will never talk. She will maintian she gave him to strangers. Then it will be up to LE and the State to see what they can charge her with realistically without a body. Because I dont think they are going to find a body. This isnt like KC who was so lazy she dumped Caylee down the block.
She could have just thrown him in a dumpster behind one of the hotels. They need to get to the landfills nearest those hotels and fast.

I think after a month, they would not find him in a landfill.

For some reason, I don't think she dumped his body in a dumpster. I think that two hour appointment she had was about offing her son. Even typing these words makes me sick.

I tend to agree with Artgal-she killed him and dumped him. She doesn't seem to be "all there." Whereas Casey was just plain lazy, this one seems like she thought about easy disposal.

cherylz wrote:Re: one of the above posts. I have to state that a bottle of liquid Tylenol for infants, could in fact kill or damage a baby if the baby were to ingest the contents of the bottle. There are multiple doses in that bottle!! Tylenol damages the liver--the only detoxifying organ of the body. Many deaths in adults even are attributed to Tylenol toxicity. These are ppl like you and me that do not realize that some OTC sleep aids already have Tylenol in them,or that some cold meds have it in them already, or don't realize that extra strength Tylenol is actually 3 Tylenol.
My MIL was taking Percocet around the clock with Tylenol in between for breakthrough pain, with the OK by her Doctor!!!!! I had my SIL question the Doc about this, and the Doc had to actually look up Percocet in the PDR to see that it had Tylenol in it and apologized and told her not to take OTC Tylenol also!!!!!! Tylenol can be a dangerous drug!

Thank you Cherylz for pointing out the dangers of accidental acetaminophen (Tylenol) overdose. I have also heard of such cases and it has been in the news now and then also. In the news they have claimed the children's dose is so very close to an overdose that parents must make sure they are measuring correctly or great harm can be done to the child.

My husband was taking Tylenol, per his doctor, for discomfort after having a surgery on his neck. A few weeks later he went to a doctor for something unrelated and they did a blood test (IIRC) and said that his liver count was way up and wanted to schedule a liver biopsy. A day or so later I read an article about the dangers of Tylenol on the liver, he stopped taking it, and a month later his blood work was just fine.

That's it..I am never taking Tylenol again and don't want my grandchildren taking it either.

On HLN as I type, they are talking Live to Tempe Police. It sure doesn't sound good at all!!

Wrap, the world went to Tylenol back when our kids were young because the remedy that we had been using for generations, Aspirin, had been found to cause Reye's Syndrome when it was given for viral illnesses such as chickenpox and others. Reye's syndrome is such a dangerous thing that all doctors started getting very liberal with acetaminophen instead and parents won't go near aspirin for their kids now. Sometimes they are given Motrin and nothing I have heard about that seems to sound any warnings yet. Both work for different things, but , fact is, they are finding many elderly in recent years being overdosed on acetaminophen accidentally when doctors or nurses have failed to compare the drugs they are on and just casually tell them to take it for everything. (In the elderly, sometimes they worry about aspirin causing internal bleeding, although they have found out that Acetaminophen has caused some other things in the elderly. ) So I think, Wrap, we are kinda stuck with it and we will use it when necessary and our grandchildren will too but we should all be educated about the potential for overdose while we are using it.

My apologies. I should have been more clear. Tylenol, like any other drug, has dangers if misused. My statement was only to clarify that the baby infant drops are designed (between drug industry and FDA) to be in small bottles so if the contents were ingested, it would be unlikely (or maybe less likely would be a more appropriate statement) to cause serious or permanent damage from the 1 bottle. My intent was not to minimize the dangers of overdosages of tylenol. Although outside of this particular case, You bring up a very good point for all readers about hidden amounts of tylenol. Patients taking medications that contain acetaminophen/tylenol (such as percocent, T3, cough medicine containing tylenol) are at significant risk of tylenol overdosage if they are not educated that their medication already contains tylenol and takes additional tylenol. All medical providers should know that percocet contains tylenol and the amount it contains without having to look it up, especially if they are the one that prescribed it--JMO. Again, my apologies, for any of you that felt I minimized the dangers of tylenol. That definitely was not my intent. I will be more careful to provide clarification if I post again. Thanks.

WithPurpose, I don't think we got the impression that you were downplaying the dangers of Tylenol. I think we all know the possible dangers if a baby or small child ingests an entire bottle of baby drops. I do thank Cherlyz and Terry Rose for their input, and I am glad this conversation came up as I personally had no clue Tylenol is in Percocet.

Your posts have been very thought provoking and I DO want to Welcome you to VH and hope that you will continue to post.

I also PM'd you and would love your thoughts. Thanks!