Tammi Smith and Elizabeth Johnson scheduled to go to trial Aug 9 to face criminal charges in the case of the missing Gabriel Johnson/ / Johnson said she killed her son Gabriel/ Audio of Elizabeth's call to Logan just released 12/14/10

WithPurpose, I don't think we got the impression that you were downplaying the dangers of Tylenol. I think we all know the possible dangers if a baby or small child ingests an entire bottle of baby drops. I do thank Cherlyz and Terry Rose for their input, and I am glad this conversation came up as I personally had no clue Tylenol is in Percocet.

Your posts have been very thought provoking and I DO want to Welcome you to VH and hope that you will continue to post.

I also PM'd you and would love your thoughts. Thanks!

Withpurpose...understood. It looks like a child's size bottle to me. The Infant's drops are in "very" small bottles.
I was floored that my MIL's Doc had to look Percocet up in the PDR...that should be basic knowledge for a medical professional!! I wouldn't go to that Doc!! But, if I said that to my MIL or SIL they would think I was trying to make trouble. My FIL was a Doctor and they think Doctors are God.
Anyway, welcome to VH. We look forward to hearing from you!

Is Ibuprofin and Tylenol the same thing? Or is acetomenaphin and Tylenol the same?? Sorry for the spelling or lack thereof.

Wrap...
Ibuprofin=Motrin/Advil
Acetominophin=Tylenol

Thanks, Cerylz. This is very, very important!!

Here are some newly released pics from EJ's camera. Some are disturbing to me.

http://www.cbsnews.com/elements/2010/01/06/crimesider/photoessay6063007.shtml?tag=contentMain;contentBody

January 19, 2010 4:00 PM
Missing Baby Gabriel Johnson: Do Disturbing New Photos Show Baby's Last Day Alive?

Posted by Edecio Martinez
(CBS)

TEMPE, Ariz. (CBS/AP) Arizona police have released new photos showing missing 8-month old Gabriel Johnson seemingly lethargic and holding what appears to be a medicine bottle.

Photo: Gabriel Johnson seems to appear sluggish and holding a prescription medicine dispenser in a new photo released by police.

PICTURES: Baby Gabriel Johnson Missing

Police believe the photos were snapped by the boy's mother, Elizabeth Johnson, on the last day little Gabriel was seen alive.

Tempe police Lt. Mike Horn appeared on CBS News' "The Early Show" Tuesday, saying the pictures are causing "great concern" to investigators and are raising questions about the mother's treatment of Gabriel.

Photo: Elizabeth Johnson

PICTURES: Baby Gabriel Johnson Missing

Elizabeth Johnson, 23, has stymied police efforts to find her child. She was arrested Dec. 30 after a two week road trip that took her to San Antonio and eventually Miami. When police picked her up, her baby was gone.

The boy's biological father, Logan McQueary, says she texted him that she had killed Gabriel and later told him that she put Gabriel's body in a diaper bag and threw it in a trash bin.

Photo: Gabriel Johnson.

PICTURES: Baby Gabriel Johnson Missing

But Elizabeth Johnson also told CBS affiliate KPHO, in a phone interview, that she gave Gabriel to a couple she didn't know at a San Antonio park, and that she only said she killed the boy to get back at McQueary.

Elizabeth Johnson has been indicted on charges of kidnapping, child abuse and custodial interference. She remains in custody.

Despite the alarming new photos, Horn says police remain "optimistic" that Gabriel is still alive. They've had "indications" that there may have been a plan to give the boy up for adoption, he said, but also acknowledged that things aren't looking good.

"Unfortunately, as each day passes, we also have to wrestle with the fact that Elizabeth may have carried out what she originally said, and that she killed him," Horn told "The Early Show".

http://www.cbsnews.com/blogs/2010/01/19/crimesider/entry6115399.shtml

OMG, what broke that mirror?

And then there is one of a knife. WTH?????????????????? I am wondering if that is the motel mirror and LE has not said anything and the knife is the one the CL sitter talked about.

With purpose, I did not get that impression at all from your post so no apology was ever necessary! I am glad that you triggered this discussion so that others will read about it and be safer for it. This happens here at VH, we all give our opinions on things and "banter things about" like old friends on the telephone. I am sure nobody here thinks you should be apologizing.

mommyof3kids wrote:

OMG, what broke that mirror?

Elizabeth Johnson did that. She also cut up clothing and destroyed the place.

What place?? The hotel? Or when she was with Logan?? This is what I am wondering. I figured she did it and I am glad their are pics of it but the pic of the knife really bothers me.

Wrapitup wrote:What place?? The hotel? Or when she was with Logan?? This is what I am wondering. I figured she did it and I am glad their are pics of it but the pic of the knife really bothers me.

In viewing the pics in the link given upthread, on the right side is an explanation of the time and place where the photos were taken. The mirror and the one preceding it were submitted by Logan when he went to court over her cutting up his clothes and trashing the place earlier than the disappearance of Gabriel. The knife is also a pic he submitted at that time into evidence.

Something just occurred to me as we all try to psychoanalyze this woman and what she may be capable of. As I think about the above pics of a knife, etc., and then find out those pics come from documents submitted by the ex when she vandalized their apartment, I start thinking of the following regarding this woman's frame of mind:
In the instance of the vandalism, her anger and rage was evidently directed at her ex. Nowhere have I read or heard that she either harmed the baby or even her dogs at that time, nor has it been said that she sought to harm the ex in her rage who was the object of her anger and frustration. She has only been said to take out her rage on THINGS, not people or animals. This to me is more hopeful that Gabriel has not been harmed, because her past MO has been harming inanimate things, not people, babies, or animals. JMO.

That could be, but I am more of the opinion lately that she accidently overdosed him with Tylenol trying to shut him up.

TerryRose, I understand your post, but she was also using baby Gabriel as a tool against Logan, so she could have snapped in a fit of rage, realizing she really messed up by going on the run, so she killed him, knowing she already screwed up and DID NOT want Gabriel going back to Logan. As in, If I can't have control of who gets him, No one gets him.

IDK, I still hold onto hope that this baby is alive and just in hiding, but like the LE have stated, there are TWO investigations going on, one for a missing child given to a couple for adoption and one for Homicide.

I just can't stand the fact that she knows she will still face time in jail either if she tells them where Gabriel is, or NOT. She irritates me BAD!! :mad:

I understand where you are coming from too, mommy, and I certainly don't claim to know any more than anybody else, but I just point out what occurs to me from time to time about this case, my own little "light bulb moments" that I share with everybody, whether I be right or wrong. Of course, we are all hoping she didn't harm him, but just as LE seems to be, we don't know which way to think about his disappearance. I wish they would hypnotize her or something just to make sure they are getting the truth out of her. Give her truth serum or something. Ya know, I think it's possible that with underground adoptions, the bio-mother may not actually know who exactly will be the adoptive parents. It might just work that way for all I know about it, which isn't much. She can give a description maybe, but that's it. Actually, I think it is quite a quandary for anyone trying to figure this one out and NG does not help when she hones in on something falsely---she just confuses it more. JMO.

I totally agree with you TR. This case is mind boggling in the fact that there really are so many things that could have happened and the one who holds the "key" to solving it is behind bars... reminds me of you know who... Not saying she is as bad as her, just that she reminds me of her.

I hope that lil Gabriel really was adopted out and that this couple is just hiding him, but I also hope that if he is with this couple that they are treating him well and have not done anything to harm this baby in light of all the media attention this case is getting :pale:

Wrapitup wrote:That could be, but I am more of the opinion lately that she accidently overdosed him with Tylenol trying to shut him up.

He looks drugged in most of the pics taken in the hotel room, we all know how dangerous it can be. Sure, one bottle of tylenol is not lethal, FDA does that on purpose to protect our children. I would think the tylenol could start to accumulate in the body, she could have opened a fresh, new bottle of tylenol after the babysitter left. If Gabriel is dead I would rather think it was an accident. How many more of these innocent children are going to be murdered by the people they should be able to love and trust.

News on Baby Gabrielle: He Seems Destined for Tragedy

Here again, we have cause and effect. As miserable of a mother as Elizabeth Johnson appears to be, she had a hard childhood, probably very little love and no stability. Gabriel’s mother lived with five different foster families before she was twelves years-old. She then went to live with her father, who, according to her grandfather, was a recovering drug addict.

Johnson and Gabriel’s father, Logan McQueary met in middle school in Scottsdale Arizona, and Elizabeth was later expelled from Saguaro High School in Scottsdale. They had an on again, off again, relationship. It was during this time that Gabriel was conceived.

Gabriel’s father, Logan McQueary, has been convicted of burglaries dating to 2004 and was in jail on parole violations before and after Gabriel was born.

It is alleged that Johnson told her grandfather that she wanted an abortion, and after Gabriel was born, the couple considered adoption but decided to raise Gabriel themselves. After a time, their relationship crumbled and custody documents were filed.

Logan McQueary said he ended the relationship because Johnson became enraged when he didn’t return home from work on time. Logan alleges that Elizabeth took a knife to their couch, his clothing and the baby crib. He says she broke dishes and smashed the television set while Gabriel was in the apartment.

McQueary also says that Gabriel’s mother was again out of control in September of 2009 and that she cut up baby Gabriel’s clothes and broke windows. Johnson spent the evening in jail. Reports show that when the couple finally broke up for good, Elizabeth told Logan that he could take the baby. She then called the police to report Gabriel had been kidnapped.

McQueary petitioned for full custody of Gabriel on December 11, 2009.

Logan’s court statements say that Elizabeth said she didn’t want the baby, and referring to baby Gabriel, she would yell at Logan to shut “that thing up.”

On Dec. 21, maybe even prophetically, Logan said in a petition to enforce child-custody determination, “When Elizabeth gets mad, she can and will hurt the baby.” By then, Elizabeth had been missing from her home for three days. Not long after, Logan received a message from Elizabeth saying that she had killed Gabriel.

It is apparent that Elizabeth Johnson never wanted her child and evidence indicates that she has a severe rage problem. It is also clear that she has the potential to hate her child and to kill him.

Elizabeth probably grew up with very little love and -given the Foster care system’s record of abused kids- and that she was left alone with her father, who had a drug problem, she may have been sexually abused by someone as a child. The combination of a lack of love and a history of child sexual abuse can create a soulless person who can even murder an infant.

Source: The Arizona Republic
http://ordinaryevil.wordpress.com/2010/01/17/news-on-baby-gabrielle-he-seems-destined-for-tragedy/

What Was Tot Mom Thinking?

January 17, 2010

The important questions still have not been answered on what has happened to Baby Gabriel. At this point all that we can do is ponder what was Tot Mom thinking? And, find out what in the baby’s parents’ life might have led up to this sorry state of affairs.

Baby Gabriel’s mother, Elizabeth Johnson, is a product of the foster-care system who grew up living with five different families before returning at the age of 12 to her drug addicted father.

Gabriel’s father, Logan McQueary, has a felony record that includes burglaries in 2004. He has since been able to work as an electrician.

Tot Mom hooked up with McQuearys after he became friends with Johnson’s twin brother, Richard. But actually she had first met him in junior high school. The death of Elizabeth’s father and that of McQueary’s mother brought the couple closer together.

When baby Gabriel was conceived, the couple moved to Arizona to be near her grandfather, Bob Johnson. Elizabeth had at first considered terminating the pregnancy. Upon Gabriel’s birth, the couple had discussed adoption before deciding upon raising the boy. Contrary to the nonsense coming from the Smiths, no discussion of adoption from Tot Mom came up again until December, according to the grandfather.

Tot Mom appeared to have become mentally unstable and volatile possibly due to postpartum depression when she destroyed two different apartments that the couple were living in. Once in September because Elizabeth had gotten mad at her brother over the telephone, she ended up cutting up the baby’s clothes, busted up the crib, and broke every window in their apartment.

Then came an order of protection against Tot Mom for the father. Followed by the couple breaking up in mid-December. With Tot Mom filing a report to LE that Gabriel had been kidnapped.

This led up to the present scene of Tot Mom having run off with Baby Gabriel. After being on the lamb from a Tempe trailer park on December 21st, in a petition to enforce child-custody determination, the baby’s father wrote, “When Elizabeth gets mad, she can and will hurt the baby.”
Sad Looking Baby Gabriel

Sad Looking Baby Gabriel
December 26th.

Tot Mom turned up in San Antonio, Texas where she spent Christmas alone and away from her family for at least one week. What was Tot Mom thinking? Tot Mom’s Nanny reported a sad state of affairs for the baby on around the 20th when she had to attend an important meeting.

We know that she had taken pictures of her 8-month-old baby boy around Christmas day and the day after. By then she had managed to clean up both her room and Gabriel. It appears that the child did have a handful of tiny toys to play with, but not nearly enough. On December 27th, the day after that her last picture of Baby Gabriel was taken, Tot Mom remembers to get even with Logan McQueary. She text messages him that she has killed his son. Whereupon the father reports the incident to LE. A massive search for Baby Gabriel is begun that involves the FBI.
Tot Mom's Family Pictures

Tot Mom's Family Pictures

Tot Mom, also, managed to have brought with her family pictures that were placed on the motel’s nightstand. They look like a snap possibly of her and her twin brother as children, and one of her mother holding Baby Elizabeth. How many people do that while on a road trip? What was Tot Mom thinking? How did she spend all her time between the 20th and Christmas? Was she with Baby Gabriel, or out partying?

The weekend also brings with it a couple of new events to ponder. On Thursday night, the would be adoptive parent’s house of Jack and Tammi Smith was searched for six hours by LE. Condescending and smug as always, the Smiths gave the press a lot of lip about it. Hopefully, LE located enough new evidence to bust them on some type of a charge. Falsifying official court documents regarding Tammi claiming that her first cousin was Gabriele’s father would be a good start.

Tot Mom Elizabeth Johnson on Saturday night made a brief phone call to her grandfather. It was a rather bizarre request for him to pick up $300 cash and a ring that she had been wearing.

http://johnhgohdecommentator.wordpress.com/2010/01/17/what-tot-mom-thinking/

Rage - she was capable of anything when she was in a rage. She's not the cool-customer we think she is just because shes not talking. And shes no Casey Anthony.
I think she does realize that if she doesnt talk, and probably with advise from her lawyer, that this could drag on a long time. Tough to charge her with murder with no body and unlike Caylee I think this child is in a place where we arent going to find him. I do believe she killed him. Her background shows the way she
deals with things - acute anger probably because of the helplessness she felt while at the mercy of different foster parents and was unable to show the real anger and fear she faced then, she acts out now.
No, I dont think she loved that baby at all, and I think she is as much a victim of a system that doesnt stand by the children after they throw them away in foster care. Im actually a proponent of group homes
(they used to call them orphanages). I think a group home where children can stay and bond at least with other children and have a stable place until they are 18 is much better than foster care where kids get shuffled around all the time. Used in conjuction with
big brother and big sister and mentor groups which could be called upon to help and other people who can volunteer they ought to consider changing this terrible system which lets so many children slip through the cracks.

The System or lack thereof has GOT to change.

The Jury is still out for me if she killed him or overdosed him on Tylenol.

Great post artgal! I completely agree with you. The system is messed up. Too many of these children are ending up like EJ and sadly this horrible cycle continues, because people like her end up getting pregnant. (f only they would have given him up for adoption in the beginning, we most likely wouldn't be here talking about where poor Gabriel might be today

Foster homes may have been the salvation for many children and orphanages may have been detrimental in the past to some, but one big thing about foster homes is that many foster parents get into it for the money, like a job or source of personal income, with no real dedication to the children they keep. Bless those good foster parents who are in it for the purpose of helping and loving unfortunate children.

I would like to know why she was expelled from school. If it would have been for fighting with another student, then we could see that attacks on another person could be possible, but if it was for vandalism of the school we would also see the pattern of taking out her rage on inanimate things and not people. I don't know any other reasons why she would have gotten herself expelled. Also, no foster parents have come forward that have known her and maybe they can't do so, but a peek into her past would be helpful. Was she rotated 5 times because of her rages? Or was it just the system routine that rotated her? Was she capable of bonding with anyone during these stays at strangers' homes? It is sad to think of her as a child herself, how much she must have had to endure emotionally and then she grows to adulthood never having been helped with the effects of this childhood which has handicapped her in life. Many people have failed her in her life, I can just hope that she hasn't failed her son but rather hope she tried to find him a good home.

Regarding the starvation theory or Tylenol overdose theory, I have these thoughts: I do not see in the pics the face of a baby who is actually starving---the complexion is good, the skin not drawn in, no dark circles under the eyes, no hollow look, no swollen belly. In the case of Tylenol overdose over a period of time, I see no evidence of jaundice due to liver failure in the face of this baby. Does anyone else here see any evidence of liver involvement? He appears to be very sleepy and drowsy. He is on the thin side but does not look actually emaciated in the most recent pics.

The item he was "sucking on" in one of the pics that NG asked the sitter about last night was not understood by the babysitter when she answered saying it was the Tylenol bottle. Does anyone know exactly what that item was? Is it some sort of sippy cup or such, or a toy? Our younger members with babies might know what that item really was.

just saw baby Gabriel's picture :( poor baby, i just want to hug him!! he does look sad/drowsy and skinnier. the bottle in his hand is baby tylenol. i have the same one at home

adelacruz wrote:just saw baby Gabriel's picture :( poor baby, i just want to hug him!! he does look sad/drowsy and skinnier. the bottle in his hand is baby tylenol. i have the same one at home

Not the bottle in his hand---the other pic NG showed last night where he was laying on his back with both hands around the item and appeared to be drinking from it. That item. NG had a red circle around it. The babysitter clearly did not know which pic NG was talking about. It looks like some sort of sippy cup or bottle to me, but I don't know what all mothers use today and what the items may look like. Anybody else know what that item was?

All of that stuff is beside the point. She kidnapped her Son and probably killed him. That is all that matters here.

Terryrose...my opinion. He looks thinner in the most recent pics. Tired. Letting him play w/ a bottle of Tylenol...not very smart. If they were all taken on the same day...why so many outfit changes? He doesn't look dirty. He doesn't look like he has liver problems. If he died from an acute overdosage (say he drank the bottle of Tylenol) he, however, wouldn't have skin changes, bloated belly...that would come with chronic overuse.
I think she did with him as she texted...she smothered him and threw him away. She had the dealing previously w/ the Smiths, so that is why she came up with the adoption story. It was an excuse to bide time. It was fresh in her mind. She clearly from all accounts suffered from a mental disorder. She was prone to rage. Sometimes in a manic episode it turns into a manic "psychosis" and if she in fact became psychotic she may not even remember what happened. I hope I am wrong and that he is alive somewhere and being cared for. My gut tells me otherwise.

Cherylz, some really good points there you make!
Good enough to win my thoughts over to your views.
LM, yes, you are right, this stuff is besides the point, but it is NG who publicly makes all these things damming evidence in this case and construes all these things to prove what happened. That is why it leads to the discussions of these things.

Cherylz, I know :pale: And to think they are just NOW searching landfills.. why did they NOT consider this a murder from the texts and phone call to Logan in the beginning?

Yes NG is making issues out of things that have nothing to do with the bottom line and it irritates me.

Terryrose..really? Are you starting to think otherwise? You were always more optimistic than I was with this case. I am sometimes starting to wonder if I am becoming cynical in my views. It's just time and time again we see these innocent victims being treated like meaningless objects. If only they realized how meaningful and full of purpose each and every life is. A gift.
Mommy...are they finally starting to check landfills? I didn't hear that yet. It's about time. They should have done that from the getgo. I guess I viewed her awful text as a confession.

It is my understand LE has been working on the dumpsters from all the areas EJ was around and traced them to a landfill. LE did that behind the scenes and it was not known until late last week. I heard that report on a NG episode. I will find the exact night and post the transcript for you all to read. What is sad is wrap lives in Texas and she does not feel after all this time he can be found in a landfill. But who really knows where she did the deed and tossed him away like garbage? Mommy we need a map of where EJ started and all the places she visited.

MICHAEL BOARD, REPORTER, WOAI NEWSRADIO: Well, what we know right now is only what Elizabeth Johnson is saying. And she says in some cases -- we know she told the birth father that she killed him, stuffed his little blue body in a diaper bag and tossed it in a dumpster.

The very fact that she said that, whether she said she was lying or not, is being taken seriously because San Antonio police have looked at all the hotels where she had stayed, all the locations she`s been in San Antonio, found out where the trash is in those locations, and tracked that trash to one landfill here in San Antonio.

That`s proof. Even though they have not searched that landfill, it`s proof that they are taking that threat seriously.

JOSTAD: Right.

http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/1001/15/ng.01.html

16 hours 49 mins

21 hours 27 mins
She could have tossed him anywhere on this trip including the ocean it looks like to me.

Looks like you got the Maps situated just fine LM :cheers: Who needs the Map Master anyways.. LOL, JK!

OK, so yes she had several miles to dump poor Gabriel's little body along the way, but (as hard as it is to type this) if he was dead in her back pack, wouldn't his body eventually begin to smell? Which makes me think she was more likely to dump it "sooner" rather then "later" right?

just pondering is all!

Have they located the diaper bag that she claimed to have put him in? Is there a diaper bag missing?

Yes, Cherylz, really. When it comes to medical kinds of things, I always hope for you to post on it and lend your expertise to it. The pics as I see them on TV and computer screens from 12-26 and before just haven't proven to me what all NG is trying to say about the condition of this baby. Though I am not an expert, I do know, just from seeing enough pictures and narrations of starving children in 3rd world countries, shown by charity groups often, that when a child is starving to death, the body becomes emaciated where you see all their bones and there is no muscle, but the belly enlarges greatly. How this happens medically, I do not know, I know only that it happens always with starvation. I do not see that in Gabriel's pics---even on Dec. 26---and so it bothers me that NG is trying to push the idea that this baby was being deliberately starved to death. The Tylenol theory is more plausible, but not over time as you have pointed out, but acutely with a large overdose at one time.
They have security pics of her boarding the bus to Florida alone if memory serves me correctly, so they had ought not look there along that route it seems to me, only in Texas.

Terryrose...you are toooo nice!!
Maybe NG is trying to figure out by the amount of food/bottles if she planned on staying for awhile? IDK. She does sensationalize the cases. And, I agree some of the experts are not very good! I do however, owe it to NG with my becoming aware of little Caylee. NG and JVM at least bring these stories into our living rooms.

cherylz wrote:Terryrose...you are toooo nice!!
Maybe NG is trying to figure out by the amount of food/bottles if she planned on staying for awhile? IDK. She does sensationalize the cases. And, I agree some of the experts are not very good! I do however, owe it to NG with my becoming aware of little Caylee. NG and JVM at least bring these stories into our living rooms.

I happen to like both NG and JVM by the way, just getting aggravated at NG's attempts to fabricate things more recently in this one particular case and I have never noticed JVM do that at all.

I happen to like both NG and JVM by the way, just getting aggravated at NG's attempts to fabricate things more recently in this one particular case and I have never noticed JVM do that at all.

And her rude interruptions and cutting people off is aggravating as well. I don't know how she gets half the people on her show that she does with an attitude like she has! Mind boggling.

I forgot she boarded a bus to Florida. :whew:
Now I have hope LE will find him again. I don't know what I would do without all of you to keep me straight.

by lindamarie Today at 5:37 pm

I forgot she boarded a bus to Florida.
Now I have hope LE will find him again. I don't know what I would do without all of you to keep me straight.

No worries LM, I like to use my whip every once in a while LOL, JK!

I do enjoy those Maps, it's always nice to see where the case has gone.

I did here on NG last night that they are finally searching the Landfills and NG was saying what a relief it was because they still had a chance of finding him, while others were saying it will be much harder finding him in the landfill after all this time has gone by!

I am still holding onto hope that he is still alive and well hidden by this adoptive couple.

Also on a side note I just got this message about a Vigil they are holding this weekend for baby Gabriel:

Logan McQueary January 20 at 2:32pm Reply
The McQueary Family would like to invite the public to a Candlelight Vigil in Honor of Gabriel Johnson at Chaparral Park at 5401 N. Hayden rd in scottsdale at the south soccer field on Sunday January 24th at 6:00 pm. Thank you to each and every one of you for all your thoughts and prayers. We are gathering for Gabriels safe return. Thank you Please repost

She drove from Tempe to San Antonio. This is a long, long stretch on I-10. My question: Did she stop in San Antonio because it is a big city right of I-10 and she needed to rest OR did she actually know someone in San Antonio? When she got on the bus (across the street from Motel 6 where her car was found) surveillance shows NO Gabriel. So, in essence, she could not have dumped him in the ocean.

No way he was in her back pack. I don't buy that. Something happened to Gabriel in San Antonio or surroundings. This state is HUGE - there are so many open fields..you could hide a body in this area and it never be found. Seriously.

I think all that know me here know my feelings on Nancy Disgrace. She blows everything out of proportion and I sometimes think she hinders cases more than helps them.

I don't want to think he will turn in to another "missing forever case"

Lets all remember that we hear NG is nothing like that in real life. That is TV. It is about ratings and money.

Anybody see that security pic they have of her boarding the bus to Florida? I haven't seen that anywhere myself. The only way, it seems to me, that his body could be in any other place than Texas would be if she boarded the bus with a suitcase or bag big enough to conceal him in. Then I would be expecting LE in the various communities along the way to search at any stops that the bus may have made in which the passengers got off to visit washrooms, buy refreshments, etc.

PS----Wrap, I like your name for Miss Nancy :lol!:

Unless they can break her, which I doubt, this baby
whether alive or dead is gone. If someone took him
they arent going to give him back, or they would have done so by now. I stand with the profiler the baby is probably dead.

On NG (thanks for the shout out,TR!!) tonight, LE has not released if EJ was arrested with the back pack. I would also like to know if the knife the babysitter talks about was found in the hotel room. Also, have any of the passengers that traveled on the bus w/EJ been run down and questioned?

Also, IF she were arrested with pack back in hand, the police could do dna on it. (In case on the off chance she stuffed his lifeless body in the bag and dumped him on her way to Florida). God forbid!!

Was it a video or a picture from a security camera? I am sure she had bags. We know she had some cash and a camera. We know the car seat was in the car and no sign of Gabriel. No other results of the car have been released that I know of. No mention of a knife either. If she had that knife for protection she would have taken it with her right?

It was a surveillance camera which shows her carrying a back pack. The pics were taken off her cell phone. No other results other than the car seat was in the car have been released. Nothing about the knife.

She fit everything into a backpack? Wow, she must have left a lot of her stuff back at the hotel to do that. (If she had more than that, cases might have been put in the luggage compartment of the bus) Anyway, if that is all she boarded with, LE could tell how full it was when boarding and then how empty when exiting the bus at the Florida destination. If they show her boarding with a diaper bag or something which could hold one in it and she arrives without that item, then that would be damming evidence. I think all this would be simple for them to iron out and I assume they would have done this first thing. With that in mind, Gabriel must have either remained in Texas---or somebody else transported him elsewhere. JMO.