Re: Autopsy Report Results - Per Wrap: Autopsy results on this thread ONLY please! Comments & Discussions Welcomed!!

[CritterFan1]

Unleash, on the news they kept saying she was in a shroud. Did they mean LE put her in a shroud to bring her body out, or the laundry bag was used as the shroud? The autopsy report said the garbage bags were not tied together. gross. Wonder if animals ate some of the tie pulls. In the beginning the news and reports stated the laundry bag the first covering first I thought, also.

[Guest]

Good question, critterfan. I'm totally confused on the whole "shroud" thing.
I always thought from the way I read it that she put caylee first in the laundry bag, then in a black garbage bag; then when it tore or leaked, she "double-bagged" by putting a second black garbage bag over the first. Then "dumped" like trash.
HORRIBLE.

[Guest]

It is so D*** hard to go back to the homepage here and see that beautiful picture of caylee on that tribute after reading all we have on the autopsy.
It's just absolutely heartbreaking. Death is hard enough when it's a child. But to read the details of what those animals did to her OMG. Now THIS is a nightmare. :( :x

[Guest]

Not to mention what her own mother did........Fry

[Heike]

I know that it is the hardest thing to imagine and our tears fall easily, as we naturally consider that body to BE Caylee, but just to make it a little easier, we have to do ourselves a favor and focus on the reality that Caylee's spirit had long since left her little body before Casey ever took it to the woods. Sweet Caylee is fine now.

xoxo
Heike

[Guest]

Thank you, as always, heikexoxo, my voice of reason

[Guest]

you know someone on the thread wrote that in order for her hair to have amatte she had to roll her head back n forth struggling for air
forgive to whoever said it but your theory makes sense
they foudn chemicals only known to the human body when it suffers a lack of oxygen in the air samples of trunk of car
the duct tape was so tight obviosuly that it had to be to hold a face togetehr after teh body skeletonizes
so she woulnd that tape super tight aroudn her face and caylee squirmed and that si why they say malicous intentional homicide
that means caylee was fully awake and struggled
SO SHE WOUND THAT tape super tight onto a live childs face and the child rocked back n forth trying to get air she placed alive that body into teh trunk and shut that lid for it to get the chemicals trapped in it
what a psychotic b--c.
and the ANTHONYS ARE FREAKISH MENTALLY ILL NIMRODS and make me want to vomit.

[Guest]

[quote="Heike"]Thank you sassy for posting. I also seriously doubt the duct tape was placed post mortem. Everything about how and where Caylee died is speculation and may drive us all mad before this is ever behind us, I think. The only thing we know for sure is that she was wrapped in duct tape, not reported missing and found dumped in the woods. Homocide, yes, but how?

Caylee being in the trunk after death does not really point to a certainty that she died there. If she died somewhere else, Casey would have to put her somewhere. We don't know. The dogs hitting in the yard would likely be related to the scent being transferred there, as it is highly unlikely that Caylee would have been placed there long enough for decomposition fluids to be present. (Sorry, I still cringe to hear myself...)

heike the autopsy report says prior to decomposition meaning she was not yet rotting rightthe air samples in trunk say a human body suffocated and released a chemical only known to the human body when it suffocates so we know she died in that trunk
the tape was wound so tightly it held her jaw to her face after her body had lost all fluid tissue and swiney we also know it covered her NOSE AND MOUTHso we know someone covered her nose and mouth tightly with tape stuck her into a trunk and shut the lid
and she died.
my question is only one,
Did Casey put the heart shaped sticker on right after she died or hours later or while she struggled to get air

[Guest]

Here is what Wrap and Unleash are talking about in comment 91 on that site, for those who cannot go to it to see it there:

"No chloroform, etc. found. No trauma. No obvious means of death. Had to be homocide, 3-yr old children do not just up and die w/o some detectable cause and too old for SIDS. Ergo, I think she drowned, how I don’t know, accident or accidently on purpose. The duct tape applied post mortem. Have you heard the term, positive “O” sign. Some medical people refer to it when the person is very near death or has just died–the jaw drops open. Nothing left to hold the mandible shut. In morgue kits there is a strap that is applied around the jaw to gently close it before rigor sets in. This “O” sign can be very pronounced and unsettling to see first hand. Casey probably wasn’t aware of this and was really spooked by this silent scream (poor caylee...:() and used the duct tape then put a heart sticker on it as a ________ (fill in the blank"

dr g says beofre decomposition she taped body
forensic air samples say a chemical knwon only toa human body when it suffocates was foudn in air samples of trunk dr g said nose and mouth were covered
how can anyone think she did it after she died?

[Guest]

Thank you for this info, Deb.
I think this is what we've all been struggling with. I made an earlier comment the day the autopsy was released that experts said decomposition begins within 4 minutes of death, so I pretty much thought the obvious. Why would Dr. G say she could not say if tape was placed prior or after death in the report? That would have stopped all the confusion?? Thanks for your input!

[Heike]

Deb says:

heike. the autopsy report says prior to decomposition meaning she was not yet rotting rightthe air samples in trunk say a human body suffocated and released a chemical only known to the human body when it suffocates so we know she died in that trunk
the tape was wound so tightly it held her jaw to her face after her body had lost all fluid tissue and swiney we also know it covered her NOSE AND MOUTHso we know someone covered her nose and mouth tightly with tape stuck her into a trunk and shut the lid
and she died.
my question is only one,
Did Casey put the heart shaped sticker on right after she died or hours later or while she struggled to get air

Hi Deb, do you have a reference for where the forensics states that the chemical is known only to a human body when it suffocates? I do not recall this being stated in any evidence?

I know there is an assumption that the tape covered her mouth and nose, but do not think the evidence stated that it is known. Obviously the tape would have loosened a lot without the soft tissue to support it and so it would be in the generalized area. I certainly believe the tape was placed there while she was alive.

I still have not seen evidence supporting knowledge that she died in the trunk or proof of how she died. And as far as the heart sticker, of course, we have no idea. xo

Gosh, I think it is time for me to pop over to the funny threads or take a walk! This can get so gutwrenching at times. Happy Sunday, Deb and to all!

xoxo
Heike

[Guest]

In other words, Dr. G DID say she placed the tape prior to decomposition; then she said she couldn't say if it was placed before or after death. If decomposition begins within 4 minutes of death, then it's hard to think KC rushed and BEFORE decomp began,(within 4 minutes) then placed the tape there.
It was a little confusing the way it was worded in autopsy.
Then when you go to all the other reports, you begin to read between the lines....ie, the forensic air samples say chemical known only to a human body when it suffocates was found in air samples of trunk.

[Guest]

Heikexoxo, I know.
Maybe we should take a day off, huh :lol!:

[Guest]

you know someone on the thread wrote that in order for her hair to have amatte she had to roll her head back n forth struggling for air

Caylee's body laid out in those woods for 6 months. With everything that happened to her body, the decomposing, animal activity, exposure to the elements of wind and rain, flooding/standing water, being packed in mud and muck, etc., her hair would me nothing but a matted mess after all of that, especially when you factor in the process of decomp, sloughing of flesh, the fluids etc. It doesn't necessarily mean she had struggled and tossed her head around while still alive.

[TerryRose]

Just a thought here about the heart sticker over the tape and mouth: I have wondered from the first discovery of that sticker if KC didn't fool Caylee into thinking they were playing a game with the sticker, perhaps a way of preventing struggle as she taped her mouth shut.

[Wrapitup]

Just a thought here about the heart sticker over the tape and mouth: I have wondered from the first discovery of that sticker if KC didn't fool Caylee into thinking they were playing a game with the sticker, perhaps a way of preventing struggle as she taped her mouth shut.

TR, that is a very interesting theory and I can see where you are coming from here. But, I still think in Casey's twisted mind, by placing the heart shaped sticker over the duct tape, it was her way of saying it was okay to kill her, like it HAD to be done, as if she was better off. Sick either way!!!!!!!!!

[Wrapitup]

Judge releases Caylee's autopsy report


By Amy L. Edwards | SENTINEL STAFF WRITER
June 20, 2009

Despite a courtroom battle over Caylee Marie Anthony's autopsy report and concerns that its release would cause "endless pain" for her grandparents, documents released Friday contained no bombshells about the slain toddler.

The documents did, however, highlight the meticulous work that investigators, scientists and others undertook to find the 2-year-old's tiny bones and investigate her death.



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[Guest]

Just a thought here about the heart sticker over the tape and mouth: I have wondered from the first discovery of that sticker if KC didn't fool Caylee into thinking they were playing a game with the sticker, perhaps a way of preventing struggle as she taped her mouth shut.

oh man terry what a horrifying thought.......but could be so true so like what she seems to be like ....ugh so sickening its nauseating

[Guest]

Deb says:

heike. the autopsy report says prior to decomposition meaning she was not yet rotting rightthe air samples in trunk say a human body suffocated and released a chemical only known to the human body when it suffocates so we know she died in that trunk
the tape was wound so tightly it held her jaw to her face after her body had lost all fluid tissue and swiney we also know it covered her NOSE AND MOUTHso we know someone covered her nose and mouth tightly with tape stuck her into a trunk and shut the lid
and she died.
my question is only one,
Did Casey put the heart shaped sticker on right after she died or hours later or while she struggled to get air

Hi Deb, do you have a reference for where the forensics states that the chemical is known only to a human body when it suffocates? I do not recall this being stated in any evidence?

I know there is an assumption that the tape covered her mouth and nose, but do not think the evidence stated that it is known. Obviously the tape would have loosened a lot without the soft tissue to support it and so it would be in the generalized area. I certainly believe the tape was placed there while she was alive.

I still have not seen evidence supporting knowledge that she died in the trunk or proof of how she died. And as far as the heart sticker, of course, we have no idea. xo

Gosh, I think it is time for me to pop over to the funny threads or take a walk! This can get so gutwrenching at times. Happy Sunday, Deb and to all!

xoxo
Heike

sure heike page three of autopsy report dr.g says:
althought there was no trauma evident on teh skeleton, there is duct tape over the lower facial region still attached to the head and hair, This duct tape was clearly placed PRIOR to decomposition, keeping the mandible in place.
page eight says
teh skull was intially received in a seperate paper bag with duct tape over the lower portion of the face, with the tape still attached to some of teh scalp hair
a large portion of scalp hair was in a mat under the skull. The mandible was still in its approximate anatomic location in spite of complete skeletonization


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covering her mandible and maxilla, essentially from the bottom of her chin to over her nose. she says refer to dr shultz and ultz report so I did
[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] here they are the ones to see her on dec 11 with dr.g
on page 14 of ths report utz and shultz write "a hair mat was noted on the base of the skull and grayish colored tape was ntoed covering the mouth and nasal aperture areas", the tape remained in place because it was adhered to the hair of teh skull in addition the mandible was still retained underneath the base of the cranium (skull) postion slightly posterior
it says OPINION: considering the dispersal of the skeletal remains, it would not be expected to find the mandible in this position unless something affixed the mandible in this position prior(before) decomposition and teh hair matting forming.
in skeletal cases the mandible and cranium are normally found disarticulated because there is nothing to hold teh mandible in teh place after soft tissues decompses, Based on the postion of the tape and mandible it can be inferred that teh mandible remained in this position because the tape held it into place beofre the hair formed a mat on the base of the skull.

[Guest]

In other words, Dr. G DID say she placed the tape prior to decomposition; then she said she couldn't say if it was placed before or after death. If decomposition begins within 4 minutes of death, then it's hard to think KC rushed and BEFORE decomp began,(within 4 minutes) then placed the tape there.
It was a little confusing the way it was worded in autopsy.
Then when you go to all the other reports, you begin to read between the lines....ie, the forensic air samples say chemical known only to a human body when it suffocates was found in air samples of trunk.

in Caseys words "absolutely" hahahahhah

[Heike]

Deb, . xoxo

I agreed that the tape was placed on Caylee prior to death, I did read the report; my questions were about the proof that the forensic evidence claimed it was due to suffocation, based on your post. I think if the ME determined this as a cause of death, it would not be interminable causes? And if the other facts prove that, I was looking for the links to that, as I did not see that in the discovery anywhere, directly?

I cannot believe I am still up!
HUGS to you,
xoxo
Heike

[Guest]

WARNING: TROUBLING ARTICLE!

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Autopsy Report Details Caylee's Death

One chemical found in the trunk of Casey Anthony's car is the kind emitted when someone is possibly deprived of oxygen, the report said.

***THE PARAGRAPH AFTER THIS IS UPSETTING AND DISTURBING.

[Guest]

Deb, . xoxo

I agreed that the tape was placed on Caylee prior to death, I did read the report; my questions were about the proof that the forensic evidence claimed it was due to suffocation, based on your post. I think if the ME determined this as a cause of death, it would not be interminable causes? And if the other facts prove that, I was looking for the links to that, as I did not see that in the discovery anywhere, directly?

I cannot believe I am still up!
HUGS to you,
xoxo
Heike

Heike,
the forensics air analysis confirmed that it had nothing to do with autopsy they cannot prove bones suffocate
but they know caylee was in trunk decomposes they know the chemical released during suffocation was in the trunk hence they know she suffocated
this cannot be prettied up
it is not pretty
it cannot be softened up as it is not soft
it is what it is a evil psychopathic woman who kille dher child and HER PARENTS ehll bent on saving her from getting prosecuted for it even tho they know she is guilty

[Guest]

One chemical found in the trunk of Casey Anthony's car is the kind emitted when someone is possibly deprived of oxygen, the report said.

"Whoever did this put the duct tape over the child's mouth. I wouldn't be surprised if the child actually died from suffocation, but what's more important I think is when you bring in the chemical analysis of the trunk into play, when you actually read the analysis from the trunk, it says there's higher levels of a certain compound that is present when a person is dying from suffocation -- which is a lack of oxygen. All in all, I think that's why the state is seeking the death penalty is because Caylee Anthony, no matter how she died, whether it was from the duct tape of from being in the trunk, suffered. For a few minutes, she knew she was dying. She knew she was in pain. She suffered tremendously," defense attorney Richard Hornsby said.

[TerryRose]

Can anyone tell me what chemical it is that is released because of lack of oxygen in the human body which would remain in the environment? Is it CO? If so, that can be from exhaust, what then is this peculiar chemical? Juanita, how about it? Anyone know?

[rlmnurse]

Can anyone tell me what chemical it is that is released because of lack of oxygen in the human body which would remain in the environment? Is it CO? If so, that can be from exhaust, what then is this peculiar chemical? Juanita, how about it? Anyone know?

Trhere are lot of gases that are released during human decomposition.

[Juanita]

i dont know off the top of my head, but i'll google something and get back with you.

there are three ways to decompose flesh.

1) cellular necrosis - basically the cell walls break down, releasing enzymes that chew up everything they touch, hence breaking down more cells, liquifying and degrading, in the process various gases and chemicals are released. with heat, certain molecules, which can no longer be maintained by the cell, will naturally degrade and transform in aerobic (oxygen) or anaerobic conditions (little or no oxygen)

2) bacteria and fungi feed on the flesh and emit gasses and chemicals

3) body fluids particularly stomach acid "escapes" its container and "digests"

what these chemicals and gasses are and which are specific to human decomposition, i dont know id have to google it. I recall the FBI report described chemicals in the trunk that were specific to human composition (not found in animal compostion), for that you would have to read the doc, as there are many.

[Guest]

This thread is soooooo long, and I haven't read thru the entire thing so if I missed this, I'm sorry. Has anyone seen the part of the autopsy that mentions a tibial fracture? I believe it was post mortem, but if anyone knows would you fill me in.....thanks.

Heike, Im so glad to see you!!

[Wrapitup]

This thread is soooooo long, and I haven't read thru the entire thing so if I missed this, I'm sorry. Has anyone seen the part of the autopsy that mentions a tibial fracture? I believe it was post mortem, but if anyone knows would you fill me in.....thanks.

Heike, Im so glad to see you!!

I did not read that and nothing has been mentioned anywhere either here or on the telly about that.

[rlmnurse]

This thread is soooooo long, and I haven't read thru the entire thing so if I missed this, I'm sorry. Has anyone seen the part of the autopsy that mentions a tibial fracture? I believe it was post mortem, but if anyone knows would you fill me in.....thanks.

Heike, Im so glad to see you!!

I haven't heard or read anywhere about a fracture. All I have read is that there were no signs of trauma other than a few bite marks frm animals.

[Heike]

Deb quoted: [quote]One chemical found in the trunk of Casey Anthony's car is the kind emitted when someone is possibly deprived of oxygen, the report said.

"All in all, I think that's why the state is seeking the death penalty is because Caylee Anthony, no matter how she died, whether it was from the duct tape of from being in the trunk, suffered. For a few minutes, she knew she was dying. She knew she was in pain. She suffered tremendously," defense attorney Richard Hornsby said.

Deb, I understand your frustration and agree completely that Caylee was murdered and find it as reprehensible as you do. I just do not find that there are enough facts to prove she suffocated in the trunk. It is one possibility, but it is not a proven fact. The language in this statement above is clearly uncertain.

As far as Mr. Hornsby, I think that is a very irresponsible statement. He has absolutely no knowledge that Caylee knew she was dying, knew she was in pain and suffered tremendously. We all know that there are countless possibilities here, and that her having suffered is one of them, but this is not proven by the evidence. For someone to make that claim as a fact and not as an opinion, to me, eradicates their credibility. The experts have made it clear that a lack of findings on the toxicology results does not eliminate the use of drugs, but merely points to a likely lack of long term abuse.

We can only hope that whatever motivation and madness took Casey to this place, there was a level of mercy (using the term very loosely) involved when it came to the final act. As much as I do not know what happened, I have a hard time picturing Casey taping her up, kicking and screaming, and Caylee being unable to pull down the duct tape in a fight for air, so I speculate that she may have been drugged.

There are so many scenarios that we could determine that fit with the forensics, it is impossible to know. And then when we take in other evidence, how does it fit? What were the flurry of calls to the A's that day....once upon a time, that led us to think an accident gone wrong perhaps and she flipped. But then, there are the computer searches that eerily match some of the evidence and her nanny claims~~the most provacative link to real premeditation, until that fateful day when we heard of the duct tape. Although an argument can be made that she could have been just unhealthy enough to use the tape to silence her without the intent to kill, it is hard to absorb that in any sustaining way for me. A child of that age is pretty strong, however, and it is hard to imagine the taping while fully conscious being anything but extremely difficult to achieve and maintain, without the child being subdued by a drug or being bound. (sorry) If that were the case, the carelessness which prevailed would likely mean the binding would have been with the remains. We do not know what happened.

I think that is my point, we all want to have an answer, so we theorize and try to find the truth, but the fact is that we do NOT have the truth of how she died, only a series of evidence which limits the possibilities to some degree, but offers very little to lead to an absolute cause and scenario.

I think Mr. Hornsby should be ashamed for making the statement he did. I assume that he is not privvy to any information beyond what we are? So, just like us, he CANNOT know.

Bless Caylee's Soul
xoxo
Heike

[Heike]

Jet! So glad to see you too hon!!! xoxoxo

[cherylz]

IMO-the only way little Caylee did not know that she was slowly dying-it takes 4 min. for brain damage to begin and 10 min. for brain death, is if she were drugged 1st--I pray that she was.
I do not find it hard to believe that Caylee did not pull the tape off. First of all duct tape is strong, esp. in layers--it is industrial strength tape. Secondly, we do not know if KC overpowered her-did she sit on her and hold her hands down. I cannot see her just leaving her on the bed alone. The likely scenario is that she pinned her down or put her in the trunk. (I think the latter). Caylee was not even 3 years old--was the tape just too painful to pull off adhered to both her skin and HAIR?

[rlmnurse]

I don't think the argument can be made that the duct tape was used to just keep Caylee quiet after reading the autopsy report. The duct tape was wrap around the nose and mouth and several layers applied. This to me indicates intent. It also shows the person applying the tape was very angery.

[Guest]

I don't think the argument can be made that the duct tape was used to just keep Caylee quiet after reading the autopsy report. The duct tape was wrap around the nose and mouth and several layers applied. This to me indicates intent. It also shows the person applying the tape was very angery.

yup as I have stated all along it was temper tanturm on Caseys part

[Guest]

[quote="Heike"]Deb quoted:

One chemical found in the trunk of Casey Anthony's car is the kind emitted when someone is possibly deprived of oxygen, the report said.

"All in all, I think that's why the state is seeking the death penalty is because Caylee Anthony, no matter how she died, whether it was from the duct tape of from being in the trunk, suffered. For a few minutes, she knew she was dying. She knew she was in pain. She suffered tremendously," defense attorney Richard Hornsby said.

Deb, I understand your frustration and agree completely that Caylee was murdered and find it as reprehensible as you do. I just do not find that there are enough facts to prove she suffocated in the trunk. It is one possibility, but it is not a proven fact. The language in this statement above is clearly uncertain.

Heike

Heike I am not frustrated, Nor am I confused Nor am i jumping to conclusion all you have to do is read teh report to know it covered her mouth and nose , we know you would have no reason to cover tehnose of a dead person, you have alwasy felt that we could not be sure Casey killed Caylee you maintained and stood by that forever as well as saying the Anthonys were good people, Never once did I say you were confused or frustrated, ..........

[cherylz]

Deb...I remember Heike as feeling compassion for the Ant's, but never do I remember her doubting that KC committed this act of horror.

[Wrapitup]

She could have duct taped her more after death to make it look like a kidnapping. I believe Casey suffocated her. I did not think that until I looked at the autopsy report.

My question here is: where do you think Casey did this? At the Ant's or in her car??????

[TerryRose]

Wrap wrote, "My question here is: where do you think Casey did this? At the Ant's or in her car??????"

I have an inkling that KC and Caylee were observed by GA on the 16th leaving the house, but they came back after GA left and the house was empty, whereupon I think KC at least taped her mouth shut and applied that sticker. She may have died in the hours following, perhaps in the trunk---we may never really know for sure.

[Wrapitup]

Wrap wrote, "My question here is: where do you think Casey did this? At the Ant's or in her car??????"

I have an inkling that KC and Caylee were observed by GA on the 16th leaving the house, but they came back after GA left and the house was empty, whereupon I think KC at least taped her mouth shut and applied that sticker. She may have died in the hours following, perhaps in the trunk---we may never really know for sure.

I have always wondered just how many crime scenes there are. The Ant's, the trunk and where her remains were found. I know the last two are for certain but not sure on the first one. I kinda think she did this to her in her car for some reason that I cannot get out of my mind.

[Guest]

Deb...I remember Heike as feeling compassion for the Ant's, but never do I remember her doubting that KC committed this act of horror.

you have mail

[Guest]

[quote="Wrapitup"]She could have duct taped her more after death to make it look like a kidnapping. I believe Casey suffocated her. I did not think that until I looked at the autopsy report.

My question here is: where do you think Casey did this? At the Ant's or in her car??????[
logic would say trunk because of chemicals foudn but my mind screams house I am just not sure either

[cherylz]

I think that she could have done this to Caylee in her own bed, sitting on her overpowering her, till she lost consciousness. Then wrapped her up, making it look like she were putting her laundry in the trunk, and placed her in the trunk. She could have even have put the 1st piece of tape on while Caylee was napping, reason for no shoes being on, and then cotinued to place layers, so that it would never come off. There was a rather long period of time on the afternoon of the 16th, after GA left, where there was only a 22 sec. call. I think this is when she did it.

[Guest]

IMO it makes no sense for anyone to think caylee was killed anywhere except inside of the trunk of the car. Evidence of suffocation in the trunk, plus layers of ductape wrapped around the babies skull, all point to her being thrown in the trunk alive, and dying from suffocation.

In some ways i can see how others would prefer if casey had been looking right at her child as she snuffed the life out of her, but in reality all the evidence points to caylee knowing she was dying, and dying alone and scared in a dark 'room' (which is all she knew that trunk to be)

[cherylz]

Sassy, that has been my theory, I just think she could have started the wrapping in Caylee's bed, but I believe the little girl actually died in the trunk. That has always been my fear. For me, personally that would be the worst way to die.

[Guest]

I think that she could have done this to Caylee in her own bed, sitting on her overpowering her, till she lost consciousness. Then wrapped her up, making it look like she were putting her laundry in the trunk, and placed her in the trunk. She could have even have put the 1st piece of tape on while Caylee was napping, reason for no shoes being on, and then cotinued to place layers, so that it would never come off. There was a rather long period of time on the afternoon of the 16th, after GA left, where there was only a 22 sec. call. I think this is when she did it.

I so hope Caylee was asleep when her Mom put that duct tape on her. Based on the layers of duct tape and the scary images it brings to my mind I hope she did chloroform her. The amount of chloroform in that trunk tells us she probably used it on Caylee. Let’s hope poor little Caylee never woke up until she was in heaven.

[Guest]

@ cherylz, i pray that your theory is correct and caylee was at least asleep for some of what her mother was doing to her, it just seems so doubtful...

@Lindamarie, i remember mentioning to you mother that i hoped the reason the traces of chloroform were so high is because she did pour a bunch of it in the trunk to knock caylee out...but with the ductape being over her mouth AND nose, its really really doubtful any of that even reached her.

Chloroform has to be introduced in to her airway, and if she could not breathe, then none of it reached her like her mother 'hoped'. :fight:

[cherylz]

But, I still believe even if she started putting it on in her sleep, that Caylee woke up and knew what was happening to her. I pray she was medicated 1st, I just don't think that KC would go through that trouble. This seems like an act of desperation and rage. I do not think she would stop, think and take the time to mix up a solution, so that is wouldn't be so horrifying for Caylee. She didn't care, she did not want her.
This has bothered me so much since the autopsy came out last week. I actually wake from a sound sleep-startled-and start thinking about it. It is so very horrible. So very sad. RIP little Angel Caylee.

[Guest]

AFTER THIS AUTOPSY if teh anthonys dare say one word in tht witches defense I do hope someone in Orlando takes care of them

[Heike]

Hi Deb,

I am sorry, but you are misinterpreting me completely, this is not personal.

Deb says

Heike I am not frustrated, Nor am I confused Nor am i jumping to conclusion all you have to do is read teh report to know it covered her mouth and nose , we know you would have no reason to cover tehnose of a dead person, you have alwasy felt that we could not be sure Casey killed Caylee you maintained and stood by that forever as well as saying the Anthonys were good people, Never once did I say you were confused or frustrated, ..........

My focus in my post was on the lack of certainty of her suffocating in the trunk with the tape over her nose and mouth while alive (based on evidence), otherwise, something that an expert witness, would testify to in court as a true fact. This is quite different than our finding it a very plausable theory. I am not saying it did not happen, only that I do not think the evidence proves that it did. I am often speaking from an analytical perspective, which was the case here.

When I said that I understand your frustration, I meant in terms of how I feel this case has frustrated us all. I did not say that you were confused, Deb. I was talking about the case, not about you.

As far as Casey's guilt...that is something that I have never ever doubted from day one. I have never suggested that I did on any forum??? I have no idea why you would believe that I have "maintained and stood by that forever". In this case, I will say that you must be confusing me with someone else!

My thoughts or any of our thoughts of the Anthony family really do not change the facts of the case or impact the outcome, so I do not dwell on it, but yes, I do have compassion for the loss of their sweet grandchild, who I believe they loved with all their heart. And I think that until that one beyond horrifying act of Casey's, they were just another family with problems, trying to find their way through life. It is completely fine if we do not agree on that. It is an opinion, it is not personal, nor does it define who we are.

Wishing you well and I hope that you understand my efforts to clarify this.

:flower:
xoxo
Heike

[Heike]

cherylz Yesterday at 4:49 pm

Deb...I remember Heike as feeling compassion for the Ant's, but never do I remember her doubting that KC committed this act of horror.

Thank you for the support! This is true; Casey's guilt is an absolute fact to me and that has not ever wavered.


xoxo
Heike

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