Case against Casey Anthony 11/6/09 doc dump

My theory...the needle...you need a script to get one...was an already used needle. Prob. one of KC's male friends was injecting himself w/ steroids (testosterone) to build muscle mass.

Wow, Cherylz good thinking about a possibility on where the testosterone could have come from. I think it is quit easy to buy needles actually. I have seen people buy them at Wal*greens with out a prescription before. But Your theory seems to be a better one to explain where the Testosterone came from!

And, did she inject the poor baby? The needle was still on the syringe. If she used the needle for measuring purposes...she would have taken the needle off.
Where was the fresh urine found...was it in the bottle too? Does this tie in to the pregnancy test found at the site? IMO...no coincidence here w/ that bottle testing po. for chloroform...it is most certainly a smoking gun. The bottle was closed, protected from the elements so there has to be prints and DNA.

I have to think that she most likely mixed a batch in a syringe in case Caylee wouldn't drink from the bottle, IMO, I think she just sealed her own fate by placing the needle in that bottle, thus protecting any fingerprint or DNA evidence on the needle, which in my opinion is definitely the smoking gun!!

Crazy sealed her own fate by being sooo stupid and placing the murder weapon directly next to her daughters lifeless body!

I think she used the syringe to soak the rag - that way she could control the flow and not knock herself out
by pouring it from the bottle to the rag. Even holding the rag against the bottle and tipping the bottle still would have been hard to control the substance without putting herself under. Also I think the knife is not from Cindys set - she never produced the set it was from - I think Casey left that in the car purposely like she left her purse to cast suspicion elsewhere.
The knife was only a prop IMO to point to someone else. Mystifying is the testosterone they found.

cherylz, excellent point about the syringe, needle and testosterone---that makes sense to me!

I have no time to read the docs right now, so thanks, friends, for posting the important points here for the rest of us to read. They surely have a lot more evidence than what I thought they had to convict this hideous monster-mom.

Im not sure about Florida law... but in NY one could wlk right into the local drug store & purchase syringes, so that drug addicts dont share needles & end up with HIV or Hep.
I was wondering about the testostorone... could one of Casey male friends have used it to inject steroids? Could she have stolen it from Jesse? (remember she went to his house to use the shower). Not trying to start rumors, the last thing Jesse needs is to now be accused of shooting up 'roids.... but I have to wonder...??

Off Topic, but HI SophiaRose, I have been wondering where you have been, as I have missed you so!!

YA, the whole testosterone being in the needle just makes my head spin in circles.. there has to be a reason why it is in there?

This is good news for the prosecution. Comp. searches on her computer for chloroform, a bottle w/ chloroform residue in it lying near that poor baby's body. They had to have tested the needle and syringe for DNA and prints...right?
The only thing that gives me a teeny bit of solace is that Caylee, precious Caylee, did not have to endure many minutes of terror not being able to breathe. If she gave her the drug, she would basically fall asleep. So why did she tape her too? Ugh.
May God be with her.

So why did she tape her too? Ugh.

I have always thought that if she didn't use the duct tape as the cause of murder, then she put it there to make it look like a kidnapping to go with her whole Zanny the Nanny taking her deal shmeal..

good point, mommy.

RE the testosterone---don't middle-aged men sometimes take it because they have grown impotent or otherwise are low in it? Maybe it was one of George's that KC would have found in the bathroom garbage? Could be anybody's and why would KC worry about sterility of a needle when her object was to kill her baby anyway, so she wouldn't have bothered buying one if she could lay her hands on a used one to use for her evil purpose.

Could be Georges, but I still am not sure why she would add testosterone to the mix, and from what I have read, it only seems like there was testosterone found in the syringe and NOT the bottle of Gatorade, which makes me think Cherylz theory is more likely

I took male testosterone for awhile mixed with female hormones.

Those theories sound plausible to me. She would not care about a dirty syringe. I hope LE would be smart like all cherylz and terryrose and check in to something like that. The tape was either so she could not scream while her Mom killed her or so that is Caylee by some chance woke up she could not scream out. Surly KC knows by putting that duct tape in place over Caylee mouth and nose that she would not be waking up.

Thank you, BJ!!

NG is discussing in detail. Please, all of you feel free to comment on the NG thread!

p.s. You are correct, BJ..would take a month of Sunday's to read this dump today.

CritterFan1 wrote:I took male testosterone for awhile mixed with female hormones.

Okay, I have to ask this: WHY??

Wrapitup wrote:

CritterFan1 wrote:I took male testosterone for awhile mixed with female hormones.

Okay, I have to ask this: WHY??

Because testosterone is good for the sex drive of both men and women ;)

Color Me Confused!!!

Okay..this might seem a bit far fetched..but instead of it being a male friends needle...

what if the people who say casey is a 'prostitute' are correct?

So she goes to 'work', she shares needles with her daughter, one to knock her out, and two to inject herself with testosterone to liven up her sex drive to do her 'work'...

:idk:

whats this about a pregnancy test!? was casey pregnant, omg.

Are you saying that if a woman uses testosterone, it improves her sex life? I really do not mean to sound uncaring due to today's doc dump - but wouldn't this make the female grow more hair and lower her voice?

Off topic and don't want this thread to sway but would love to know how testosterone enhances a woman's libido.

Let us just hope the duct tape went on after she fell asleep from the drug. It is just all so horrifying. It is like a nightmare. I see her beautiful pics, and then I remember what happened. How senseless. She was a beautiful, healthy, loving little girl.
KC (I even hate to write her name) was right about 1 thing...she is a "spiteful b*tch."

There was a pregnancy test found near Caylee's little bones. I don't think she was pregnant or there would be a baby by now. She has been locked up over a year. The testosterone thing has bothered me all day wondering what the heck? And only in the syringe. The bug/insect evidence is good. Very good for the prosecution.

Wrap...all women have some testosterone in their bodies. We just have more estrogen and progesterone to counter it's effects. In excess it does incr. facial hair, deepens the voice, increases muscle mass etc... along w. increasing libido. Maybe that is why men are always in the mood!

Thanks, Cherylz..never knew we females had testosterone.

This new doc dump is by far the most compelling yet.

Just my quick two cents yall. Here in Texas, as someone said before, you don't need a prescription to buy syringes. Also, you can get them at your local Tractor Supply store, so you don't even have to go to a drug store to get them.

Had no clue, Nikken. Am assuming it is because of all the steers and horses??

:study:

Wrapitup wrote:

CritterFan1 wrote:I took male testosterone for awhile mixed with female hormones.

Okay, I have to ask this: WHY??

Got fixed very young and had no hormones. None of the patches or shots worked for me, I was an emotional wreck. They added male testosterone into the mix, I leveled out and became "normal". Should I be honest and say, "semi normal"?? MY thought was she was just dosing Caylee with whatever meds she stole from her grandma and put hormone replacement in there along w/muscle relaxers. Just a thought.

Wrap, yes, but you can also get vaccinations for several kinds of animals. Medications and vaccinations are available for dogs, i think cats too, and livestock. I know because the stuff I give my dogs to prevent heartworms is cattle wormer and it has a rubber stopper on top of the bottle you need a needle to get through.

I wonder from watching NG last night if there is any other evidence on the syringe? The panel seems to think so, NG thinks so. I want to see the rest of it now. Anyone research death by injection of Chloroform?

FYI I am going to split this topic and move the actual links to the documents to that section of Casey Anthony.

Linda Marie, I think the State w/hold off on saying if there were fingerprints on the bottle or syringe. IMO and the opinion of many, this IS the smoking gun.

Thanks for splitting the actual docs and placing them in the Casey thread.

I agree wrap we won't and should not know everything before the trial. Florida sunshine law is the strangest law I have ever dealt with. Most states and most trials we know nothing until the jury does.

I am waiting with baited breath for Juanita's expertise on the latest doc dump!! :cheers:

I wonder if when surgeons used Chloroform if it was injected or inhaled?

lindamarie wrote:I wonder if when surgeons used Chloroform if it was injected or inhaled?

It was inhaled. I had a tonsillectomy at age 5 (many, many moons ago) and I asked my mom. She said "Yes, back then you were given chloroform."

I have NEVER heard of injecting chloroform unless it was on a mouse in a lab.

Juanita, where art thou???

Rhythmic Changes in the Rat Produced by a Single Injection of Chloroform

PHYLLIS KNOCKER & JOEL MANDELSTAM

DURING the progress of an investigation into the effects of various toxic drugs on the cytology and histology of the liver, it was found that after a single injection of a sub-lethal dose of chloroform (0.5 c.c. of 10 per cent solution of chloroform in liquid paraffin) into male rats, the Scharlach R stainable fat in the liver appeared and disappeared in a rhythmic fashion.

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"In the production of anesthesia by chloroform there are four stages, as in ether anesthesia, and the symptoms are the same in nature"

"In the last few years a great many cases have been reported in which the patient, after apparently recovering from chloroform, would pass in a few hours or days into a condition of marked prostration, delirium, coma, and death. This condition has become known as delayed chloroform poisoning, and it has been the subject of much careful study."

"The symptoms appear in from ten hours to six days after the anesthetization. The onset may be gradual or sudden. In the former the patient does not fully recover after the anesthesia, and gradually passes into a state of prostration with delirium, coma, and death. When the onset is sudden, the patient recovers from the anesthesia and is apparently doing well, and the first indications of anything wrong are marked cerebral disturbance, with the sudden appearance of periods of wild delirium, with shrieking and struggling, alternating with periods of stupor or coma."

If Caylee was dying from chloroform poisoning, theres the chance it was killing her slowly..and she was shrieking and crying out as the symptoms show, THAT could be why casey threw the ductape over her daughters mouth...

There's more..

"The conditions which favor the development of delayed chloroform poisoning are believed to be: Liver abscess, kidney disease, anemia, especially that due to hemorrhage, alcoholism, obesity, the lymphatic diathesis, childhood, previous chloroform anesthesia within two or three days, and prolonged anesthesia

also...why the needle?

"Intravenous General Anesthesia: The intravenous route was early tried with chloroform and was given up as too dangerous"

Chloroform Anesthesia

btw, ether is made from ethanol, which is what they found in with the chloroform. So the Anesthesia mix seems highest likely on the list right now. She was knocking her daughter out.

What i dont understand is where did casey LEARN all this stuff from.

Thanks, Sassy, for the education on anesthesia using ether and chloroform. I never knew all that.

"The presence of testosterone is a prerequisite for the development of chloroform-induced renal tubular necrosis in mice. The purpose of this study was to check whether methyltestosterone exerts the same influence. Castrated males and females were treated with one of these compounds: those treated with testosterone developed renal tubular necrosis after chloroform injection"

"Acute kidney injury (AKI), previously called acute renal failure (ARF),[1] is a rapid loss of kidney function"

Sassy, thanks for all of the above.

Where did Casey learn this? Online in her search. MOO!!

Do you know I checked a few other sites and ppl--some ppl--still say the Gatorade bottle prob. had nothing to do w/ this case, how do we know KC handled it, and even it was prob. put there to "frame" KC after the fact!!!!! It's like...get real. Why do they try to deny or make excuses for the obvious? Really makes me angry!

cherylz, maybe their point will be disproved at trial because there is some reason why it will be tied into evidence and the prosecutors are not dummies----maybe fingerprints on the syringe and/or bottle?---maybe even DNA on the needle? Whatever it is that ties it in, there must be something because it IS being tied in. JMO.

cherylz wrote:Do you know I checked a few other sites and ppl--some ppl--still say the Gatorade bottle prob. had nothing to do w/ this case, how do we know KC handled it, and even it was prob. put there to "frame" KC after the fact!!!!! It's like...get real. Why do they try to deny or make excuses for the obvious? Really makes me angry!

They are out of their mind now that chloroform has been found in the syringe to think that. Next you will be hearing and reading how it was planted there or that means someone else who uses steroids killed Caylee. Yes Sassy KC learned that stuff on line just like you did today.

Sassybtsweet wrote:"The presence of testosterone is a prerequisite for the development of chloroform-induced renal tubular necrosis in mice. The purpose of this study was to check whether methyltestosterone exerts the same influence. Castrated males and females were treated with one of these compounds: those treated with testosterone developed renal tubular necrosis after chloroform injection"

Sassy, is this a clue about how the testosterone was involved??? Or what does this mean...too many big words for my little brain LOL...reminds me when I try to read up on what my doc tells me.

laga is it something sassy found in researching why in the world a combination of those chemicals and compounds were used in that syringe. It has baffled many people including the media. I bet the prosecution has found experts that will tell everyone "why" when the trial gets going.

My heart is breaking. I always tried to have hope that maybe somebody else did it. That hope is gone. I think when we look at Casey Anthony we are looking at the devil.

Laga, i googled the use of testosterone with Ethanol and Chloroform, and got the mice experiments where it induced kidney failure.

Kidney failure would have been a horrible way to die for a little girl. Im almost glad she died from the chloroform instead, but im not sure thats what casey actually wanted. I think she wanted her daughter to appear to have died from natural causes, which is what kidney failure would have looked like.

This is just too damned horrific for words!!

good find Sassy, the more we learn the more horrible it is. Your post above about the way Caylee may have died and the use of the duct tape makes me ill. I don't see how anyone can still believe anything except kc is a monster.

Thanks for your explanation and for posting the info, most interesting.

welcome back too, you are much needed and appreciated here and besides, we just like you.